67/74 # 112860 Well in this point From: AGENT 008 on Wed Aug 30 1:34am I have to agree with FE. If Jesus did indeed exist, which I believe he most likely did, then he would most likely have lived the life and style of his life that is common in that group. Anyway the simple fact is partying, in the sense we have it today, didn't exist then. They had to deal too much with survival to simply have a good time every night. oo Twisted-8-Infinity oo Agent 008 I've always heard that Jesus was a carpenter until he took up his holy service. 68/74 # 112863 except for the little bit From: CHILDHOOD TRAUMA on Wed Aug 30 1:50am of Jesus's temptation, eh? Since Jesus WAS tempted, we had, at the very least, the partial desires for other than the path of good. After all it is NOT temptation when someone refuse to accept your phone bill. "er, look, don't vote for bush, and I'll give you my phone bill..." "er, let me think it over, eh?" 69/74 # 112877 Well, From: S'TALON on Wed Aug 30 1:15pm as far as what is not recorded in the Bible about Jesus, that's becuase the church does not seek truth but power over the masses. I would not trust the chruch one millimeter. 70/74 # 112923 Teenage Mutant Ninja Jesus From: HYPERBOREAN MENACE on Thu Aug 31 8:37am Oh, he was a stoner alright... Did you ever see how long he wore his hair? Heh. Has anyone heard more news on the Dead Sea Scrolls? Are they still being withheld from the public? Makes me wonder what they're trying to cover up. 71/74 # 112937 huh? From: YAMABUSHI on Thu Aug 31 1:06pm Whilst in Israel, I saw these scrolls® whats withheld? Confused and confused Yama 72/74 # 112940 Zzzzzz......zzzzzzz....... From: IRONMAN on Thu Aug 31 1:27pm zzzzzz.......zzzzzzzz Oh, sorry, all the logic has overwhelmed me........ zzzzz.....zzzzz 73/74 # 112950 Dead Sea Scrolls From: PROFESSOR XAVIAR on Thu Aug 31 5:54pm More Scrolls were found a long time ago, but are being withheld by the 'scientist' who discovered them. Best I can figure is they contain information which will upset certain religions... 74/74 # 112953 So there From: AGENT 008 on Thu Aug 31 9:00pm has been confirmation of these by trustworthy people? oo Twisted-8-Infinity oo Agent 008 50/71 # 112994 Oh boy!!! From: XERYUS on Fri Sep 1 12:32pm I wonder what is in those scrolls? Maybe it was something proving the actual existance of 'The Rough Skinned One'!!! 51/71 # 112997 ... From: BARFING CAT ()]|-) on Fri Sep 1 1:50pm Back in black..... FE, your logic is also incorrect... For God creatith, and God Destroyith in your bible... If he was without sin and your God murdered (which is well documented in the Bible) then does he not have a differant standard of sin? With this logic in mind, Jesus could of done as he pleased and still of been sinless... And it's 100% consistent with God and the bible... ;-) 52/71 # 113061 YUMMY! From: YAMABUSHI on Sat Sep 2 3:27pm gotta mull that over® rough-skinned one? Im frightened 53/71 # 113078 Dead Sea Scrolls From: NIKADEMUS on Sat Sep 2 9:51pm just like the Shroud Of Turin. It was with-held from the public, until someone could study it to see if it was the true shroud of christ. It wasn't, as it was made around 1000 years ago. And after the church got egg in it's face after that, as it declaired the shroud to be true when it wasn't, they denounced science and methods of carbon dating testing. The church will denouce anything it can't use. I am sure that there are other things that are in hiding from the public by christian scientists, the church or other groups becuase they would shock the current religion. FE, not good enough. 25 years of Jesus's life is missing, and you explination holds as much water as other people's about Jesus being a drug taking hippy. While I don't think Jesus would take drugs and be a hippy, I feel that he had learned carpentry from his father at a young age, and then left home to spread the word around about his spiritual father. There was something in his life that the people putting the bible togeather didn't like, and they took it out. Don't you think it odd that so many versions of Jesus's life, and none of them covered the missing 25 years? Cencorship is nothing new. You have no proof that Jesus had stayed with his parents for 25 years, and it isn't written anywhere. But it was your best GUESS at what Jesus did. Not true FACT, or even a story that seems likely. 54/71 # 113081 Shrouds and shreds... From: THE PRODIGAL SON on Sat Sep 2 10:18pm Well, personally, I don't care whether the srhoud of Turin was real or not. I never believed it to be, and I really don't know (or care), because if your faith is contingent upon a piece of cloth, then it isn't very strong anyway. Real or phony, its nothing to base a life on. On the other hand, what if it is real? Still doesn't matter, because just as some people say that the church will denounce anything it doesn't like, scientists would denounce (and have, historically) anything that points toward the existence of God, which THEY "can't use". All the proof (not saying that the shroud is, though) won't convince someone who is deliberately trying to NOT believe. For myself, all the physical evidence in the world, or lack of it for that matter, won't affect my faith. You can take away the shroud, and you can take away my Bible, but you can't take away the everyday miracles that I've seen. You can't take away from me the things I've seen God for people around me, and for me myself. God doesn't want to PROVE himself to people in artfacts or old sheets; He wants to reveal Himself to each person's heart. You won't find that in an old sheet. 55/71 # 113089 First off From: AGENT 008 on Sun Sep 3 1:55am Prodigal Son some of those comments above are a little too generalized really to be useful. First off, most scientists probably wouldn't denounce anything that pointed to God, most likely what they would express is a little doubt. Not to mention there are a good amount of scientists on every level of religion. The facts though are a scientist with out a natural tendency to hold doubt or claim to be infinitly sure of something is a bad scientist. Also as for religious leaders. Not all of them denounce science. In fact a good many don't. I know a few that believe in evolution(please this is just a minor point, don't bring it up as an argument! Unless you want to). As for Jesus, Nika I don't think(maybe should let her defend herself) FE is saying that Jesus lived with his parents for 25 years, more like he lived as a good Jew for those many years before the "time had come." Anyway I do agree with you that much of his life may just have been censored out. Not necessarily afterwards, but more so that the writers, most of them worked, or had a good relationship with Jesus, right? --used common propaganda techniques, still used today, and left out the bad points. Well, anyway thats what I call a possible explaination, not necessary my strongest view, or my complete one. I guess this is a good time to post this. My basic religious views. I consider myself agnostic. (And so nobody takes the liberty of defining it for me, heres my definition) I am one who believes there may, even a goo chance, there is a god, or something beyond this life. But I will not, or think anyone else has the right, say I know exactly this afterlife or God's intent. I do not denounce any religions, I except all as being possible, even related. Now getting more specific, I think if God does indeed exist then he is to all mean how they will most except him. I believe if one does exist he is responsible for Budism, the Jews, and even the satanists. As for thee bible. I think it is a symbolic work of what he would like us to be. We symbolise it for ourselves. I believe it was all written by man, possibly by divine inspiration. It does have large historical value, although iit may be difficult to seperate the historical areas from the symbolic. I believe a lot of it is to give simple explainations for natural phenominoms(sp?). I believe the beginning of Genesis is a simple explanation of the evolutionary process. Except for day 4 it does show a good basic evolutionary process. Day four I think would be the human factor of mistake, or maybe put there for a reason. If I've got the correct say that is the day when he produced the rest of the universe. Now as for Jesus I believe he existed alright. On what level I don't know. I tend to go for the fact that he was a good person believing in God but not truly what he says he is. I tend to believe he spoke such as a preacher and much of what he said in the bible he said or did, with some propaganda written into it. As for God. I seriously doubt that if he is our creator he would want us using the whole gift we have been given to search for what he wants. Yes this is the main point where I think most bible people make there mistake. They search the writings of the bible there whole life so they can find an explanation for such. In turn, unknowningly, the even deny one of the first of the ten commandments. They turn the book, where that commandment is located into an idol. People, from what I've observed the heavt christians pray more to the bible or to the cross than they do to any kind of God. Anyway I don't believe God is perfect. I personally don't think, following the literal definitions of perfection that such infinite perfection cannot create imperfection. Then again I don't follow the literal definition of perfection. I think perfection, infinite perfection needs to be partially everything. Part good, part evil, part strict, part openminded, part greedy, part generous, etc. Well more 56/71 # 113099 Shroud From: PERCEPTIVE on Sun Sep 3 4:39am The Catholic Church did not "get egg on it's face". It NEVER EVER proclaimed the shroud to be the actual shroud of Christ. Whoever posted that go wipe the egg off your own face. 57/71 # 113115 the CHURCH the CHURCH From: CHILDHOOD TRAUMA on Sun Sep 3 7:34pm arrgh. run for your life. the "church" lives in some kinda nebulous form and has ideas and opinions above and beyond mere mortal men! sorta like germandy! and, although I despise "churches" especially organized ones who think for themselves without having a mind, the last one I was involved with did not view the shroud as actual, merely a slight possiblity as real, but an excellant example of religous art . but the issue was faith. if the shroud was ald enough, would the science heads have found religion? I doubt it, and, as evidenced above, the god heads refuse to use their heads, and science and the real world will affect them as much as metaphysics effects the science heads who fail to use the imagination aspects of the mind. 58/71 # 113128 Saying a lot, From: AGENT 008 on Mon Sep 4 2:01am you say nothing! At least as far as I can see. CT, you know I almost get the feeling your against everything. How thats possible I don't understand, but it appears that way. All I find in the previous message is overgeneralizations, and words. oo Twisted-8-Infinity oo Agent 008 59/71 # 113134 ... From: BARFING CAT ()]|-) on Mon Sep 4 5:33pm That's not entirely true... I threw out the idea that Jesus did enjoy himself while he was here...And it was good. :-) 60/71 # 113187 I'm sorry From: AGENT 008 on Wed Sep 6 12:52am about my previous post. I felt like saying something ignorant at the time I guess. I am disappointed, though, that I didn't get to read CT's response. I probably would of found it funny. Is anyone else getting a disk error on that message? 61/71 # 113193 All quite sad. From: THE KID on Wed Sep 6 6:09am Of COURSE everyone is getting a disk error. Mike's using those damned lousy cheap mail order disks. We whinned about it a decade ago but he never gets the hint. Geesh. By the way, who gives a flying Hungarian Monkey F*ck about the Shroud of Turin? Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot, Sue Savage never bothers to call here anymore. The whimpering, pathetic, religiod ad-nauseum quality of the debate drove her off. Sorry, I thought there might be someone floating out there who could think. Never mind... (I'm sure even AA has THIS filtered by now...) 62/71 # 113241 Yes but Kid. From: AGENT 008 on Thu Sep 7 12:40am Those are the kind of debates that are fun. 63/71 # 113255 Hmm, Kid, From: TRITON on Thu Sep 7 12:45pm the quality of your insults is approaching the level of Sunday-morning wrestling programs. 64/71 # 113274 Now From: SAMHAIN NIVHWVS on Thu Sep 7 7:04pm you've hit rock-bottom 65/71 # 113283 Hey, Triton, From: THE PRODIGAL SON on Thu Sep 7 10:05pm you'd better tread lightly around that subject! Sunday morning wrestling programs have MUCH more class than Kid. "McMahon, I just wish for ONCE in your life you'd step in the ring so you'd know what you were talking about!" -Jesse 66/71 # 113286 you can't have it both ways From: PERCEPTIVE on Thu Sep 7 11:01pm First ya'll complain the Kid's posts are several paragraphs of saying nothing. Now he posts short, concise and to the point and you step on him for that. Myself, abnormal as the opinion may be, like the former, long yet intellectual posts of the Kid. Especially one he made about flag burning which I have on disk. 67/71 # 113306 Gee, once again I must From: IRONMAN on Fri Sep 8 8:40am point out the FACT that the Shroud of Turin was NOT revealed/proven to be a fake. I thought I had cleared up that point for you guys already. 68/71 # 113318 THE FOLKS ARE TALKING From: CAVE MAN on Fri Sep 8 10:52am About the shroud being dated around the 14th century, or has that fact been cleared up. The dead sea scrolls contained a bill for the last supper. (couldnt resist (it's a joke)) The problem with many interpretations of the bible is that they tend to be unatural. I'm to believe that the child jesus did not waste any time sitting on a hill tripping on the clouds. Not likely... I wont believe in a jesus that woulnt party, just because somebody TODAY thinks it's improper. What about sex? God or not, how could jesus be human without sex? What i am saying is he couldnt have been human if he wasnt what his peers considered human. [] CAVE MAN []