64/67 # 111995 More Genesis From: S'TALON on Tue Aug 15 10:00am If you feel the Bible is mistranslated (which it probably is), why do you say we should follow it literally, FE. Also, Genesis is contradicted by later Pharisees, especially Paul who was most chauvenistic. My post concerning the equality of paganism vs. the bigotry and chuavinism of Christianity still stands. P.S. Since the Bible is mistranslated, how do you know what the original is supposed to say, since everyone touts his/her version of the Bible as the "orginal true word of God". 65/67 # 112008 Word of God From: SPIKE on Tue Aug 15 1:04pm Yeah, I've heard that one. "God wrote it down in plain English--see!" The Bible was originally scribed in Hebrew and Greek, and those texts were passed down with little discrepency or alteration. The problem lies in translating Greek and Hebrew words into English concepts, sometimes very difficult to do without adding one's own conception. 66/67 # 112019 Thanks, FE, for From: IRONMAN on Tue Aug 15 5:22pm contributing to this board. When you're gone, and I get bored, see what happens ? CT, I think you've gotten yourself tied up in a revolving door: you're going 'round and 'round, but going nowhere ! 67/67 # 112067 Thanx! Ironman... From: FIRE ESCAPE on Wed Aug 16 5:05pm Getting dizzy yet CT? Tal: Why do I still believe in the Bible? Because I STUDY it, that's why. I'm not one of these plastic christians that swallow any and everything without searching the scriptures for myself, and for me that means looking at the orriginal words that are central to the interpretation. Why should I throw the baby out with the bath water simply because you did!? The MESSAGE of the Bible is not in error, some various interpretations can and have been, but the majority of them are right on the money, if they weren't, I wouldn't equate myself with the christian faith. 63/68 # 112086 FE: From: S'TALON on Wed Aug 16 11:00pm Maybe studying other paths and trying to see why they follow them would show you that trying to force other people to take your path (conversion to Christianity) is wrong. I think it is Cave Man who said it that "Helping others take a step on their path is much better than having them take a step on your own". It has come to my attention that two of the procliamed Christians on this board has helped others take steps on their paths, and not resorted to Bible quotes in E-Mail discussions. Those of you know who you are. Thank You from those you helped, and may your deity be with you. I post that to show, that not all Christians perform bad all the time, that they do good acts, it is just some of the thumpers that go and ruin it all for the rest of them. 64/68 # 112092 for the sake of truth From: CHILDHOOD TRAUMA on Wed Aug 16 11:25pm I will allow ironman to offer some proof, and thereby win the day. allk he has to do is, with us present, is go through the same door in the exact same manner at least two times. If he can do so, I'll worship him forever! but since he can't, I challange him to, once again, offer some evidence or stop saying nothing so very very loudly. 65/68 # 112098 Hmm.. From: JIMI on Thu Aug 17 2:22am Interesting discussion... About the Rib. I would and so have about 100,000 Hesidic Rabbi's have taken to and have passed down the books befoe they were books throught Aramaic. Then finall y down to Hebrew and Greek into Latin and then English. Now along these have been Transliterated and Translated down. When you left Aramaic you had to "Tansliterate" the whole text. Needless to say there was only 100 people around the time of Christ that could have Transliterated correctly. The idea of the Rib was the "Palace" of Tiphereth. It would be the seat of Soul. In other words the seat of the "Energy of Creation". The "elohim" looked at Lilith as the Sub-Conscious Mind and created it. Lilith was a bit to Sub-Conscious fo Adam (since was the Conscious Mind). So, they made Eve. Now She had to have "The Energy of Creation" plus she had to make Form. What I mean by form would be "Material Manifestation". So, therefor "The Male " does have direct power over the "Female". Adam or the "Primal Man" named the plants and animals so he would have rule over them. He limited them by giving them a name. He therefor said" You are bones of my bones and flesh of my flesh". I.e "I have created thee and I'am master of thee". I have named thee and the secret lies there. Now about Lilith. 1. Read the Torah. 2. She got banished to the Red Sea (The Southern End of course). She spawned the Daemons (Lesser Gods). I.e. Shaitan, Pazuzu, Baal, Bael... She has wondered the Earth ever since.... Where do you think we got the concept of Vampires from.. 66/68 # 112137 Ahh...Lilith From: SPIKE on Fri Aug 18 1:37am Lilith the sweet . Lilith doesn't come from the Torah Jimi, she comes from the lore of the Jewish Psuedeographia and various Hesiadic tomes. According to their lore, Lilith was Adam's first wife, the mother of hell. Discounting Judaic conceptions concerning marriage and a moral God, I would like to remind you of this. The "innate" knowledge that a man holds within himself is that the "Law of Contradiction" is the most reliable proof of positive truth, or the most reliable disproof of truth. If A=A, and B=B, and A, then A cannot not equal B at the same time. (Blah, my logic courses slip from my mind slowly). According to this Law, Polytheism must be broken down eventually into either Monotheism or Pantheism. Which way do you go? 67/68 # 112143 First we must From: IRONMAN on Fri Aug 18 4:22am define what you mean by proof. Here a proof. There a proof. Everywhere a proof, proof. Old McDonald had a proof, ei-i, ei-i, oooooo. 68/68 # 112180 "proof" in the deductive From: THE GREEK SYNDICATE on Fri Aug 18 2:58pm sense of the word -- you know, where you have certain rules, and apply them to hypotheses in an attempt to reach the conclusion. As many people have pointed out, the bible was originally scribed in Hebrew and Greek. Now, I don't know who this "Hebrew" guy is, but I was previously unaware that someone had scribed the Bible in me, but when I checked -- SURE ENOUGH! I am one of the two original copies of the Bible. Some interesting stuff there. 64/65 # 112227 Why can't From: S'TALON on Sat Aug 19 9:23am Ironman ever contribute seriously to a discussion? Maybe becuase he can't explain his God and has to rely on disruptor tactics. Maybe thumperism has just rotted his brain so far, he can't make an intelligent, serious statement. 65/65 # 112237 or.. From: TYGER CHAZ on Sat Aug 19 1:45pm or maybe he's tired of seeing all these arguements all over the place...i know i am...discussions are fine, but when they get heated it just becomes redundant...just my opinion... tyger "the peaceful" chaz 62/66 # 112516 Sorta religious... From: FIRE ESCAPE on Fri Aug 25 12:55am topic here. But for those interested in the phenomena known as Christian Metal, there will be a great group called Barren Cross playing at Christian Liberty Center this Saturday (Aug 26th) night in Alton IL. They are on Enigma Records and have three albums out. The concert is a charity gig and is only 3 dollars at the door. To get to the concert you take 270 east to Rte 3. Go Left on Route 3 till you get to Route 140. Then go Right on Route 140 till you get to Fosterburg Rd (On the Left). Go left on Fosterburg Road and Christian Liberty Center is on the Right. The conert begins at 7:00 PM. There will be a small group from the boards there. E-Mail me for further information. NOTE: This is CHRISTIAN Metal. If you don't know what that REALLY is or have not ever heard a GOOD sample of it, now would be a good (and cheap) time to broaden your musical knowledge. Fire Escape 63/66 # 112530 Well.... From: ZEUS on Fri Aug 25 10:04am Christian Rock? Grooaan! Oh well, since I have a personal invitation, I suppose I'll go, but I have this really nifty question, 270 east where? Down in south county it goes east, but I don't think it connects with Rte 3. I know when I went up to visit .^*^., I took 55 and ended up at Rte 3, could I go that way? Well, oviously I could, but how would I get there from there? 64/66 # 112669 270 From: S'TALON on Sun Aug 27 1:29pm is a semicircle, in which if you travel long enough on either end, you'll wind up going east. As for the location of that church, it does not surprise me it is located on Fosterburg road. Any Heinlein fans out there? -S'Talon 65/66 # 112722 . From: NIKADEMUS on Mon Aug 28 12:25am Spike, if A=A and B=B and A, then B=A would only be true when A=0. By the And operation I assume that you mean addition, not bitwise manipulation logical AND. In either case the result would be the same. That is simple mathematics. Lilith, I think I heard something about her from somewhere else. Some other board. But in Mythical Vampires, Dracula's daughter was named Lilith. Dracula was known as the Prince Of Darkness. So we have a bit of a connection somewhere? No, not at all. Dracula was based on a guy named Vald Dracul, also known as Vald The Impailer, not a very nice guy to know. Could it be possible that the people who fictionised Vald into Dracula had come across some writings about Lilith? And thus the myth of Vampires had come about? Adam's rib. Sounds like God did some cloning and altered the DNA to make Eve a woman. Since the offspring would be a combination of both parents DNA, and not depending on physical form, Adam missing a rib would not make Cain and Able any lesser a being than any physcal offspring. The only real difference is in the DNA between the male and female. Of which there are many variations. So picking 1 male and 1 female out at random, cances are that one would have an advantage over another in some way. But in all cases, they are all equal, as in lifeforms of physical matter. The sum of both sexes divided by the total would equal 1 in that respect. And yes, the bible is mistranslated, but the meaning is still there. Even if some words got jumbled up, lost, or some words where added. The bible is not clear in all of it's parts. And the teenage years of Jesus's life are not there. Suposidly, the story of the teenage Jesus is lost, or locked in some acient building. Fe, do you know what Jesus did in his teenage years? I for one would love to hear what he did, where he went, and anyone that he met. 66/66 # 112731 Jesus' Teenage years... From: FIRE ESCAPE on Mon Aug 28 1:49am were spent obeying His parents as He grew in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and with men{. There are a lot of old writings claiming to hold that account, but many of them were proven to be complete fraud within years after they were first discovered. If any RELIABLE documentation existed concerning His adolescence, it would have been canonize{, you can be certain of that. The "church" would be more eager than anyone to find accurate accounts of that, more so than ANYONE else. So if there were any, we would have them by NOW. There has been much speculation as to why this part of His life was left silent, but I think the theory which correlates with Jewish custom makes the MOST sence. Since It was customary for Jewish sons to learn and practice the trade of thier fathers, it is most likely that Jesus (being of a good traditional Jewish family) learned the trade of Joseph and rema{ned in the business until the Holy Spirit told Him the right time had come to get on with the purpose for which He had been incarnated. Fire Escape 66/68 # 112740 life in the bianary From: CHILDHOOD TRAUMA on Mon Aug 28 2:49am sigh. the law of contradiction certainly doesn't suggest either monothesim or pantheism. You forget anthiesm, polythesim, et al. it is not the case where we are either hot or cold. I am quite warm, thank you. And the "most" innate theory we follow is the existance of the self, eh? oh well, this is religion, and since the dogmatics are here, If I wanna think, I have to do it on a seperate subboard. "since there is one door way there must be one way through it, since if there was no way through it, it wouldn't be a door and one is a number I like and I refuse to deal with 5 ways or a million, or the whole universe is the door way cos like I believe because it is absurd...." 67/68 # 112762 ... From: BARFING CAT ()]|-) on Mon Aug 28 4:33pm So, FE, what's your point? Jesus's life is not documented in the bible for atleast 25+ years of it... How can you claim such? The bible itself is an unreliable source of information as the translations are trustworthy about as far as you can spit... Espically the King James version... Now, with this is mind... What proof have you? More to the point... What does it really matter? If Jesus partied, and made love with the masses and enjoyed himself while he was here, he would still be the same man talked about in the bible...Correct? And he would still be a part of God... Now, what differance does it really make? If he led a "normal" life as the rest of the masses -- would he not truely know and understand and of gained wisdom --? Is this not the key point of the matter involved? 68/68 # 112768 BC has it From: YAMABUSHI on Mon Aug 28 4:59pm I would prefer to think that Jesus was a druggie or something. Shows his determination, etc. However, it does not matter. 69/69 # 112783 Jesus as a druggie... From: FIRE ESCAPE on Mon Aug 28 9:30pm Nyah, If you want to remain consistent with the rest of the Bible, you can't accept a Jesus that was a druggie or a partier. Jesus as God has to be perfect and sinless, as God can not sin. It is wrong to engage in licensous behaviour and sexual immorality as God has pointed these out before hand. If Jesus really is God, it is inconsitent with the nature of God to have lived as such. You can fantasize all you like about the unwritten years of Jesus' life, but I'd think twice about such ideas if you really want to mesh with any other Biblical revelation concerning God.