67/71 # 110905 PArke Godwin said: From: THE KID on Tue Aug 1 5:28am these clowns need a messiah because the truth of the world always goes down easier with a few miracles and a lot of blood. It's a very old game, the rules don't change... You ever see a happy man who needed to conquer the world? People with nothing to hang on to but a gnarled belief in cosmic cops and robbers, a hero and a heavy. Life as drama with themselves as star. Divine purpose as salvation, guilt for conflict. Infantile, needing to be the center and reason for creation, the less educated or advantaged subject needs a distorted miraculous theology to support a perilous existence, externally and constantly threatened as it is by "them.¢ Ah well, one of "Them." (From WAITING FOR THE GALACTIC BUS by Parke Godwin) 68/71 # 110931 is therå a shrink on the bbs? From: OFF THE WALL! on Tue Aug 1 3:26pm Phoenix 69/71 # 110998 Re:Spike From: JIMI on Wed Aug 2 3:49pm I can see that you have read some of the Kabbala but, you missed the whole idea of the Kether, Chcokmah, and Binah. You took them as the "The Christian Trinity" which is quite incorrect. Kether being the Crown or "The All Archtypal World of the Hidden God".. The Ancient of Days of the bible hangs out their, The Ancient of The Ancient Ones, The Long Face, The Arikh-Anpin. Then there is Chockmah wich is Wisdom and the King. A fatherly dude he is. He should be since he would be considered a "Ahlim" or Elohim. Then you Binah which is the Queen and Bride of the King. She is Aima and is also Understanding. She is the Mother who has been pefected and assended unto the king like the Virgin Mary. Now, just from there it is a good arguement for Polytheism based upon the so-called trinty of your bringing up. Let us take the first line of the Zohar. The first word would be Berashith or Brashith which could be broken down as "He who created Six (referring to the Sephiroths or worlds or could refer to he who created 6 sephiroths in 6 days, or He who created his 6 members in 6 days.. In Begining The Alhim or Elohim said Let us make man in our won image and our own likeness. The word Alhim or Elohim is a feminine noune with a masculine plural. It delibetly translated that way. It is defined as "King, Gods". Now how could Adam be made in the image of the Elohim, male and female, unless the Elohim were male and female also. The word Elohim ia plual from the feminine singular ALH, Eloh, by adding IM to the word. But, inasuch as Im is usually the termination of the masculine plural, and is here added to a feminine noun, it gives to the wod Elohim the sense of female potency united to a masculine idea, and thereby capable of producing an offspring.. Now by logic this should prove of some value.. 70/71 # 110999 The Zohar... From: SPIKE on Wed Aug 2 5:17pm Jimi, Do you have a feeling we will lose some people with THIS one? First, let me point out that I do NOT adhere to the mystical Judaic beliefs in the Zohar. You point out the Kether, Chokmah and Binah of the one God. I see the reference as pertaining to the Triune God in a rudimentary, if a little seperatist (three seperate entities in one), manner. The Kether referring to the Body of God, the Incarnation, the Creator--Jesus Christ the Messiah, or the Fruit of Jesse, Son of David, Son of Man, Son of God. The Kether is then both a physically manifest figure (the pre-incarnations at the burning bush, to Abraham, to Adam, and to Joseph; and the full revelation incarnation of Jesus of Nazereth; and the final judgemental revelation of Jesus, the Lion of Judah) and part of the spiritual unity of the "Godhead/Tri-Unity". The Chokmah is the "mind of God" from which all things spiritual and eternal flow, the Almighty God, or God the Father. The Binah, although the Zohar may use the feminine form, is part of the unity of the Godhead as well; this being the Spirit of God placed upon man (those without faith or the full revelation of faith) or within man (those justified by faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ). I do believe that the Tri-Unity encompasses male and female aspects, but I do not seperate these aspects. As it says in Genesis 2:24, the man and woman shall join as one flesh. I believe that the seperate sexes CAN provide a means of, in union, glorifying God--all the more reason for the seperation. Oh well, I'm sure we WILL continue... 71/71 # 111039 sheeooh! From: CRONUS on Thu Aug 3 3:29am I think I'll keep buffering this - it'll make a nice book.. -Cronus 53/59 # 111113 S'Talon, From: TRITON on Thu Aug 3 9:05pm Personally, I didn't feel your accusations to me deserved an answer, except that another BBSer suggested that I respond to keep the record straight. In private chat, you asked me to promise to keep my 'neutrality'. No way! A 'man of science' never vows 'neutrality', he vows to search for the truth, wherever that lies. What I promise is not neutrality, but the intention to give every side a fair chance. How do I reconcile the Bible and science? In brief, I don't. I am starting to feel that belief in God lies outside the laws of science and information theory. Why don't you finish reading the book, 'Goedel, Escher, Bach, an Eternal Golden Braid'? If you do, you'll encounter the concept of 'undecidability', that not every true statement can be proven within a given postulate system. Applied to the question of God's existence, the answer may lie outside science as we know it. The question of God's existence becomes one of faith rather than something that can be proven in the laboratory. As my 9th grade physics teacher put it, 'Life is a miracle no matter how we got here'. Many of the most successful students I ever met at Rolla were strong Christians. If you want to cite scientists such as Carl Sagan as nonbelievers, I have a list of those who believe, such as Gibbs and Schroedinger, names that should be familiar to you if you had majored in physics too. As for your concern about a 'user war', that would be contrary to the stated role of Christianity, wouldn't it? If some Christian started a 'war' against you because of what you believe in, please tell us all about it to show how bad Christians are. Remember, Tal, I take a very unusual position on such questions. The real problem here (in my mind) is not 'Christian' vs. 'non-Christian', it is the 'man of thought' vs. the 'man of action' (re: German philosophy). I've read history too. People have debated religious issues for 2500 years and not reached a universally accepted answer. I don't care to waste my time debating obscure points about (probably non-existent) deities (such as the pagan gods) when I could be spending my time developing my bank account or my love life. I'll jump in only when I see my friends getting hurt. 54/59 # 111191 Gee, Parke Godwin huh ? From: IRONMAN on Fri Aug 4 6:03pm Wowweee, how impressive ! (zzz.zzzz.....zzzzzzzz) I was wondering, Kid: do you read your Parke Godwin while you're cleaning your AK-47 , waiting for Larry Kite to show up ? Just wonderi if you feel externally threatened by "Him". Or is Larry Kite a "them". Ah, oh well, I guess I'm almost as confused by the whole thing as you are. 55/59 # 111209 Well Ironman, From: TRITON on Sat Aug 5 12:53am I wish I knew of a way to get Kid to log on now. The last couple times, it seemed like he posted something to insult the rest of us, then waited until all our comments got deleted before logging back on. That way he missed our responses. I am thinking about sending him a duplicate copy of my posts in the form of protected email, but without his original post right in front of him, he may take my defenses as unprovoked attacks. Any ideas? 56/59 # 111278 I just saw "Godspell" From: THE GREEK SYNDICATE on Sat Aug 5 10:40pm christianity has some really cool core concepts, you know...? 57/59 # 111287 If only the From: S'TALON on Sat Aug 5 11:39pm thumpers would FOLLOW those Christian concepts® Blessed Be, -S'Talon 58/59 # 111297 Does anybody else.. From: BLIND PEW on Sun Aug 6 5:38am ever wonder why people can't just leave each other alone...? 59/59 # 111328 Yeah, I think I know why... From: FIRE ESCAPE on Sun Aug 6 4:40pm I think it's called "love". Better the "wounds" of a true friend than the "kisses" of an enemy. Love motivates action. 51/62 # 111348 Yes, From: S'TALON on Sun Aug 6 8:24pm but most Chrsitians do not love. Now, there are a few exceptions to that, but most of them will curse you if you don't beleive in a Christian God. Blessed Be, -S'Talon 52/62 # 111352 Yes, and it seems to be From: TRITON on Sun Aug 6 10:07pm (at least from reading this board) that non-believers HATE Christians too® Not in the mood for a long social commentary¬ Triton 53/62 # 111356 Christians don't love? From: HAWK on Sun Aug 6 10:40pm Hmm, Don't think so. You have to love one another before you can love God? You may hate the things somebody does but a true christian does not hate a person completely. 54/62 # 111372 Bloody Eh! From: SPIKE on Mon Aug 7 12:50am Where is Jimi to respond to my post? I was just researching the ole' Zohar excerpts and commentaries, and wondering how he would respond. Hmm... I'll chalk it up to his karma . Shadows of another world show themselves in our tears. We love the ones closest, and hate the ones we fear. Things we just can't understand seem threatening to our simple mind; why not learn and love and live, peace is there to find. 55/62 # 111377 Maybe it's not From: TRITON on Mon Aug 7 1:28am the best idea to criticize another for not posting a response... sometimes peopple ARE busy, and just because they didn't post doesn't mean they can't answer the latest accusations. Then again, I've posted that I wish certain people (like Kid) would log on and read the responses to some of their posts. I guess it can go either way. I'm just sick of all the bitching on the boards (and everywhere else, for that matter). 56/62 # 111378 Hmm. From: JIMI on Mon Aug 7 1:49am I'm here and was just loking for my last post which seems to be deleted.. I wonde by whom?..!!!!!!!!! If, I could see it again it might be nice!! I don't mind typing all this long theosophy and Philosphy in but, if it isn't going to stay what is the point?? Would you look into that for me Triton??? Pleeeeeese.. About your points Spike.. I didn't see your answers about "The Elohim" Topic.. I stand on the point that the Kabbala predates Christ and that Kether wouldn't fit by your defintion. I would reference you to read "The KabbalUnvieled" by Mathers. Which is the English Translation of "Kabbala Denudata or Kabbala Neutured in pratical terms".. I will also tell you that if by Kabbalistic Means your saying that YHVH is all one without DISTINCT feminine sides such as AIMA that are quite seperate than you NEED to read about the Kabbala much moe beforre you critize such a citadel.. The Basis of the religion was Polytheism and if you can rread the history of it that you will find that out.. I was away from my computer and I THANK Triton for his points on my absense and they are apreciated... 57/62 # 111391 REREPEATED From: CAVE MAN on Mon Aug 7 5:50am While i know that you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink, i persist in thinking that you can at least try to make him see the water. I dare anyone to advance the case that christians or non-christians are: smarter, dumber, taller, shorter,pink , yellow, red, blue, green, etc. Tal feels attacked... no one is attacking him. Triton dosent like Kids tactics, but cant improve on them. FE chops right through the scripture, and consisely states the way it is, but no one seems to notice. Such is life. Life is a test. It is were the real thing, you would have been given better instructions. Finally, Triton, i lost the connectivity of "thinking man" vs " man of action". Which is which? The stereotypical Christian that has been demeaned here is not the "thinking man". Or does it just look that way to me? 58/62 # 111395 I am reading a book From: S'TALON on Mon Aug 7 12:26pm on Semetic mythology and one of its quotes (even in its introduction states): From the Introduction of "Mythology of All Races" Volume 5 (Semetic) "From the beginning and during its entire revolution the religon of this small Canaanitish (Hebrew) people was constantly influenced by Babylonian myhtology" Also from reading the first chapter it appears that the Hebrews started out in South Arabia orginally then journeyed to Ur, where the influence with the Sumerian/Babylonian culture took place. And Yahweh was orginally just a minor storm God, callled Yaw. Then the Hebrews did the same thing with this God, that Ikanton(sp) tried to do with Amen-Ra. They made him the only God that could be worshipped. 59/62 # 111415 The Zohar From: SPIKE on Mon Aug 7 5:05pm Jimi, I apologize. I realize that getting on here to respond is difficult, I was just "joshing" you. From what I have seen as of yet, with S'Talon claiming Yahweh was a storm god, and others saying that He was a volcano god, and others claiming Him as a composite deity...hmmm... I would like to check out the Kabbalah, any suggestions on HOW to get a copy, since I have been trying to "secure my own?" I still hold that the ZOHAR does not differentiate between the male and female aspects of the One God, and does not fully seperate the Three Lights of the One God. I would like to check out the Kabbalah that you use, although I have a tendency to question the authenticity of NAM literature. Until then, I hold the Zohar as being the oldest manifestation of Hesiadism and Kabbalistic thought. The Elohim and the Kether: first, haven't I already acknowledged that the Kabbalah pre-dated the full, physical manifestation of the Messiah? But if the One God IS eternal, He pre-dated the Kabbalah and every man made relgion. In the Zohar, the Fruit of Jesse, the Second Light is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The Kether is a pre-incarnation conception of the Son of the Triune God. If the NAM Kabbalah offers anything else, I'd have to research it personally. The Elohim was a term used for god existant in the polytheistic Hebrew tongue. That it was used, with modifiers and "magnifiers" (the singular plurality or multiple majesty), is like saying that the term French Fry is inadequate to describe what it describes because it does not specify every characteristic. The problem of plurality is manifest in that ANY language is inadequate in capturing fully the Divine. I'll eagerly await your response on this and the earlier post.