32/33 # 109199 abortion From: LYING IN A PINE BOX on Wed Jul 12 12:27pm Personally, I think that most instances of abortion ore unnecessary. If the child is unwanted, perhaps he/she should be put up for adoption instead of abortion. However, there is a time and a place for everything(sound familiar?) If there is a rape, abortion may be a choice, or if the mother may die. However, I STILL stand for abortion of a fetus for an unwanted child simply to avoid birth if that is the choice of the parties involved. Choice is our greatest option. Yama "looking for options " bushi 33/33 # 109213 Choice From: FIRE ESCAPE on Wed Jul 12 2:02pm Choice is a powerful priviledge and one which people SHOULD be allowed to excercise, but when one excercises his freedom of choice in a manner which harms or injures another human being then they must forfeit their right of choice by going to jail. I am not against women's rights (after all I am a woman too), but I don't think anyone has the right to kill another person - no matter how YOUNG they are. And in case you had forgotten, the Supreme Court did not strike the clause from the amendment that emphatically and SCIENTIFICALLY states that life has been clonclusively proven to begin at conception. As a nurse, I KNEW that long before the Supreme Court got around to upholding it. Love is the highest aim tis true, but Love can never be truely expressed by Self. To do as you will is the antithesis of love. Since there is but one perfect love, the fullest expression of love is to as He wills. God is Love. Fire Escape 34/37 # 109244 . From: S'TALON on Wed Jul 12 8:19pm "The symbol of the dragon should always be before them, that mankind seek to accomplish, NOT to think of sin and do penance." 35/37 # 109296 Me. From: TIGRIS LENIS on Thu Jul 13 1:41am "I think Phil Donahue's a crock." 36/37 # 109308 ... From: BARFING CAT ()]|-) on Thu Jul 13 6:50am Ahh, but to the person whom mentioned S'Talons line...He did not harm your spiritual body, and how do you know the action in itself was not karmicly sound, or that he was not teaching you a spiritual lesson? 37/37 # 109309 the statement that life From: BRETT FRANKENBERGER on Thu Jul 13 8:18am begins at conception was not stricken down or upheld by the supreme court. the court held that that was simply a statement, not an actual law (since it did not affect anyone, it was jut 'there') ... and so it did not rule on it at all. 38/38 # 109329 . From: FIRE ESCAPE on Thu Jul 13 4:21pm "Everything in the world - the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does - comes not from God (The Father) but from the world. The world and it's desires will pass away, but the one who does the will of God lives forever." - 1st John 2:16-17 "..through the Messiah Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." - Romans 8:2 "Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why do you still submit to it's rules as if you belonged to it? Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!? These are all destined to perish with use because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed do have an appearance of wisdom, with their self imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack in value in restraining sensual indulgence." - Colossians 2:20-23 Jesus frees one from Sin and Guilt, it is man's own doing if he then allows himself to be enslaved again to Sin or guilt. "There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." (Rom 8:1) 35/59 # 109331 ^ From: HAWK on Thu Jul 13 5:10pm And come now as we stand and sing--come and be Baptised--let Jesus free you from your Sin and Guilt or if you have been baptised any fell away and in need for forgiveness. Come now. Just thought i would finsh that up for you FE 36/59 # 109336 Sounds From: FIRE ESCAPE on Thu Jul 13 6:10pm Like a song I used to hear at the small baptist church I occassionally visited when I was a kid. Interesting. 37/59 # 109343 hurm. From: THE GREEK SYNDICATE on Thu Jul 13 7:11pm Methinks I've heard all this before. However, on matters religious I know some things as Absolute Truth: Geraldo Rivera is the antichrist. Phil Donahue is a space alien. the Oprah-Creature sold her soul to Satan in exchange for a simple and workable weight-loss program. 38/59 # 109351 Honestly, From: TJ on Thu Jul 13 8:15pm I'm anti-abortion,but it has nothing to do with my religion. (Well,in a sense it does because I'm a Catholic,and my church holds the stand of being pro-life.) But,I really think the Church should not meddle in the affairs of politics and government. All that will lead to is it becoming more corrupt and losing respect. The main reason I am pro-life is because I still believe abortion is legalized murder of babies. That's why I want there to be a law prohibiting it in most cases. (I am not closed-minded either though. I could see a reason for exceptions,but they'd have to be cases such as where the child being born would risk the life of the mother,or that sort of thing.) I think there has been so much dispute over this issue for years now that people are trying to avoid the issue. There is a new 3rd. stand on abortion forming. It's made up of people who choose to ignore the issue,and are for some sort of luke-warm supposed "compromise" that will serve to silence both sides. Sort of like how the Supreme Court is now talking about a "sliding scale" where the state would offer more protection to children when in the later stages of pregnancy,and less protection depending on how close to conception the child was. That seems ridiculous to me. What they'd be saying is just that the baby is progressively more important and more deserving of human rights as it gets older. If the government wants to label life's importance by age,some real problems could come from that if people wanted to stretch the issue further. Bascally,what it comes down to for me is you can be told by your church that it's wrong to have an abortion for this and that religious reason,and then that' fine. If you believe in what they say, you personally can choose to listen to it. But on a governmental,legal level,abortion should be considered murder and punishable simply for that reason. 39/59 # 109396 . From: BRETT FRANKENBERGER on Fri Jul 14 7:58am It appears to me that whoever wrote that last message did not make much sense ... first he says that he feels abortion is murder ... but then he says that he would allow it under certain circumstances (risk of mothers life etc.) ... if you strongly believe that it is murder, then why would you allow it ever? ... should we allow other kinds of murder also? actually, it is not just his opinion that i find strange ... most abortion foes would allow it in cases of rape, incest, and risk to the mothers life ... i don' see how they can say it is wrong, but ok under certain circumstances. 40/59 # 109405 ^ From: HAWK on Fri Jul 14 11:51am Yes, I think we should more than we do, like the death pentely if you think of that murder. Why shoud a person sit on death row the 20-30 years and neaver get that he had comeing. Abortion I also think is leagle murder, but when it comes down to the life of the mother and then she has the abortion I think that just selfishness! refussing the life of a baby over your own. 41/59 # 109415 . From: S'TALON on Fri Jul 14 1:05pm "What comes around, goes around" 42/59 # 109467 Y'know what I always say... From: JOHNNY B on Sat Jul 15 12:50am My karma ran over my dogma... 43/59 # 109476 ok, picture this From: COBRA on Sat Jul 15 1:26am you are a 16 yr old girl, you have a close boyfriend, he gets you pregnant, your parents are going to kill you if they find out you are pregnant, it is something that could ruin their life... do you think it is wrong then? 44/59 # 109486 Yep From: HAWK on Sat Jul 15 12:24pm Not to put harshly, but thats the way I feel. Shouldn't of get pregnant in the frist space and at that age she not going to want to get maried either. What she could do is keep it or put it up for adoption. I heard a story on time-- there way this gril she she got pregnant and her boy freind split So she could aford a ababy, So she want going to get it aborted but the dumb Dr. he decafeated the baby all it was left way the head. 9 months later she give birth to the head of a baby no body just the head and part for the neck. Think of holding a babys head in your hand!?. 45/59 # 109501 Abortion.. From: FIRE ESCAPE on Sat Jul 15 6:33pm I am pro-life and I don't think it is EVER acceptable to kill a baby. Who are we to decide who is more important or who should live. I don't want to see anyone die especially the mother, but what if that baby was the one who was suppose to discover the cure for AIDS or Cancer?????? I can see alot of people blaming God for not sending deliverance from all these diseases and world problems, but who's to say he didn't? Suppose in our extream selfishness (I don't want my mommy to "kill" me.) we killed the very people (babies) who God had planned to use to cure the diseases and prevent the wars and improve the world?!? Abortion is murder in my opinion - always. Fire Escape 46/59 # 109518 who are we? From: CHILDHOOD TRAUMA on Sun Jul 16 1:49am society. and give that girl a cigar! the magic word- KILL not murder. and need we start a list of societal accepted killings of other human beings? heh heh heh. Oh, some of them most assurdly can be and should be applied to the fetus. after all, if it gets rights, it gets the responsiblities as well.... 47/59 # 109528 FE From: THE MINSTREL OPUS on Sun Jul 16 11:26am What if the mother has contracted a disease like Germin Measels, which will turn the baby into a Goblin (that's the closest description there is)? What kind of life is a deformed piece of brain damaged flesh going to have? It's like telling a person whose entire brain has been reduced to the intelligence of a vegtable that he/she has got to live to a ripe old age, rotting in some hospital, unable to move or speak, depending on machines to survive. I don't like the idea of aborting a baby just because it was an accident either, but sometimes there's no logical alternative. Let's say a couple that has two kids and barely makes it with two incomes takes precautions (birth control), and still the wife gets pregnant? This couple can't afford to give birth. The woman can't work all nine months, and the family will suffer there. The hospital will also set them back quite a bit. Honestly FE, I don't like abortion, but there times when I defy you to give me a better solution. 48/59 # 109542 Yeah that is a... From: PHOENIX on Sun Jul 16 12:39pm Good way to look at it....Try to imagine yourself just about to be born and your mother has decided that YOU are too expensive and that she can't afford you. How do you feel about it now. You COULD have been in that situation. And you wouldn't be here now reading this post. FE let me hear a tape about this and I'll tell you something...It is wrong to deside whether or not a person should live or die. And when the government decides that one human life is not isn't important to be alive then where will it stop? 49/59 # 109545 Hmmm.... From: JIMI on Sun Jul 16 1:23pm Hmmm... Sounds like a interesting debate going on here.. FE, one question for you. If God is truely Omnipotent, being the one who says I am the begining and the end, i.e The Alpha and Omega, who was and always will be.. your statement about the baby being a scientist would be incorrect, he would have done seen what the person was going to (Woman aborting the child that is) would have compensated and dealt with after her action....How than does your hypothesis hold water???????????????????????????? Sounds illogical to me Jim.. 50/59 # 109559 Abortion: The last(?) word From: THE GREEK SYNDICATE on Sun Jul 16 5:39pm This is straight from God Almighty, or the next best thing, anyway -- I asked the True Lord of Kuwait. Abortion is not murder, because unborn babies have no souls -- that is to say, souls are not given to new organisms at conception. Honest. Don't complain to me; I didn't do it. This is policy, you know... However, it is interesting and important to note that humans do not get their souls at birth, either. In point of fact, no actual murder is commited up until the child gets a soul at age seven and a half. Sorry, everyone, but that's the way it is. My bible says so (The Laird'potentiation Random of Amber version of the bible, not the silly King James etc). 51/59 # 109608 Sigh... From: JOHNNY B on Mon Jul 17 2:17am Boring of the argument, but I will put in my last two-cents worth... A baby is a parasite of the mother... it feeds on her, giving nothing in return... biologically, that is... killing a baby is quite equivalent to killing a tape worm... 52/59 # 109614 YES OF COURSE, GOD... From: CAVE MAN on Mon Jul 17 3:41am Is there no god in the abortion clinics? If god is so opposed to abortion why doesnt he/she stop it? WHAT free will you say? How is someone gonna exersise free will if they are denied the right to choose? I think this discusion has gone on so long that it is almost impossible to ADD anything to it. But then i have to go and say..." how many little black girls have you adopted?" I really am tired of hearing the same old "commands" from a group of folks who refuse to be part of the cure, only part of the rhetoric. All talk and no show as usual. (no need to include names, you know who you are) 53/59 # 109619 what if From: BRETT FRANKENBERGER on Mon Jul 17 9:00am someone said "what if an aborted baby wa going to go on and discover a cure for cancer or aids" ... well, in our society, an unwanted child has a much better chance of becoming a burden on society for the ret of his life ... taking our welfare, or robbing u, or whatever.