62/66 # 104721 the answer is From: YAMABUSHI on Sun May 28 4:50pm that there is "some divine plan¢ rarely well described, I might add If god was as you descire Jimi, then he should know not to do that. If the reason was to provide conflict for us humans on earth. Why? I answer. Perhaps it was to test our faith in Him and his word. Again I ask, if the purpose of satan is to test faith and have Man live a "good life" why not just create perfect people?¿ He's God, right? Hmm, the above seems a little convoluted, but I think maybe the last line siffices. Why go to the trouble of making us inferior (and he did, if he controls ALL (all=all)) when he could have just made us gods in and of oursleves 63/66 # 104752 Hmmm... From: DR. APOLOGETIC on Mon May 29 4:46am Can an omnipotent being create another omnipotent being? And if so, could the secondary OB 'un-create' the first? Hmmm... 64/66 # 104783 could they From: YAMABUSHI on Mon May 29 4:44pm zap each other? and what would be the effect on the rest of "creation" if that happened? Wat about Deanna and Tina? who will they have affairs with with thier "he-man god-studs" erradicated? 65/66 # 104801 If I'm understanding From: THE PRODIGAL SON on Mon May 29 10:31pm your definition of 'omnipotent' (all-powerful, all-knowing), then Satan ISN'T. He isn't omnipotent, that is. He is limited. He has boundaries that he can't cross. Just thought I'd mention that. 66/66 # 104844 GOD.. From: FIRE ESCAPE on Tue May 30 12:02pm CT: James is not the ONLY one who speaks of God as unchanging. You may find quarrel with his contrasting God's immutibility with shadows shifting, but other verses don't even BOTHER to contrast this attribute. Check these verses: "But you (God) remain the same, and your years will never end." Ps 102:27 or "I the Lord do not change." Malachi 3:6 I can understand not wanting to accept Biblical revelation as truth as Tal points out, BUT if you claim to believe the Bible, then why not BELIEVE the Bible. This is my point. As for God creating Lucifer. AS with ALL of God's creations, they were initially GOOD. But Lucifer, like Adam and Eve was created with free will and a result of the existence of freedom is a necessary possibility of evil. Just because one has the potential to do or become evil doesn't mean they were created as such. If God would have created us immutably perfect then we would be robots without freedom of choice. For in order for there to be a choice you must by necessity have the potential to choose wrong. Wrong = Evil in God's book. Lucifer was God's head angel and light bearer, leader of worship. He became vain and ambitious and fell into prideful rebellion thus becoming evil and lost his place in heaven becoming our accuser (which is what Satan means). 64/66 # 104901 phphpthtph From: CHILDHOOD TRAUMA on Wed May 31 12:09am I accept the truth, I wonder why others do not. it is all a matter of interpretation. five lines do not a philosphy make. to change not implies in nature, I refuse to accept that it means anything more than that. Because, unlike you, I have to many brain cells to believe in self contradictory iteams. I may believe because it is absurd, but that don't mean that I believe the MOST absurd things I can put together.. 65/66 # 104919 I still didn't get the From: S'TALON on Wed May 31 1:01pm answer to my question. What outside sources prove the Bible is true, and even more importantly what outside sources prove that God is perfect? 66/66 # 104928 The nature of God.. From: FIRE ESCAPE on Wed May 31 2:55pm is a revealed nature. The only things one can determine about God apart from special revelation is that He is Omnipotent (had to be to create everything we see), Omnipresent (To create the universe which must be smaller than Himself) and Omnicienct (Had to be in order to know how to create and order things the way they are). All other attributes are revealed to us through prophecy which God controls by His Spirit. A believer also has a personal experience with God through His Spirit which confirms biblical truth, this is external to the Bible but it is supernatural (not of man's own making). It is subjective and is meaningful only to the individual. There is ample evidence that the Bible is reliable and accurate as thousands of fulfilled prophecies (it records) testifies to it's divine nature. They are there for all to examine if you are not afraid to discover that you have been wrongly informed about it. No way could men have know the future so accurately, these fulfillments are most convincing in my opinion, I invites others to examine them as well. Leave E-Mail if interested. 53/60 # 104933 hmmmm From: YAMABUSHI on Wed May 31 5:10pm I prefer Taoism® Yama "I like it with butter" bushi 54/60 # 104958 Hm.. From: JIMI on Wed May 31 10:35pm FE.. If your concept of God is revealed within nature than please show me where he is.. I don't see Yehova in anything. I can look out my window and see nature and not see him. I see grass and a Stop Sign.. Is that your concept of God? Could you be telling me that your god is Energy itself or maybe even Matter??? I agree with you that to find God one must look within oneself.. You have to find what your pesonal concept of God is first.. But, than again if he created everything why would he have wanted animal sacfices in the past??? Why inflict that harm on a animal? How would that glorify him? Why do most of God's Prophets seem to have what we call nowadays Schizophrenia?? Just a few questions that seemed really interesting to me at the present time.. If God created Male and Female than he would have had to have those attributes within himself right? If you don't understand the question that why would the Bible in the first book called Genisis to the Gentile and Berashith to one of Judiastic Lineage, start out "And the Elohim (AHLIM) created" or "God made man in their own image and their own likeness"???? IF you would look up the would Elohim or AHLIM spelled properly, you would find it is a feminine noun with a masculine plural. Which the translation would be "Gods" or "King" which would mean more than gender male and female.. I realize that these are more than one question and if you would like to answer in E-Mail that would be fine too... 55/60 # 104996 Reply From: S'TALON on Thu Jun 1 9:21am Yes, Jimi, that is exactly the point. The Creator needed some reference point for male and female. Mother and Father, but the Biblicans for some reason say that the Great Mother is either a demon or they clothe her in the robes of their Virgin Mary. Why the Biblicans fear the Great Mother, I'm not sure, maybe it comes from Paul's bigotry against females (as well as the OTS bigotry against females). In other words The Creator contains both male and female to its being. Why does God need to be Omnipotent? He may appear to Omnipotent relative to us, but that doesn't mean he is. If I create a computer program, I may appear omnipotent to that program, but it doesn't mean I am. And why must he be Omnipresent. I don't check on my computer program running every second, say if I'm running a BBS. Maybe twice a day a sysop will check on things, but a sysop is not Omnipresent, just appears to be. Also programmers nor God needed to be Omnicisent to know how to create, just having a good knowledge of mathmatics and use of commands and cuase/effect relationships. Hence, God may be all these things relative to us, but that doesn't mean he is. As far as the Prophets are concerned, they might have just had good prescience, doesn't mean its visions from God. However all the prophets were stoned for going against the religous system. Says something about what the Creator, thinks about religon, if the Prophets really were divinely guided? Also, FE you keep on using the terms "Biblical Truth". Prove that the Bible is true. In other words, circular arguments don't work, at best the Bible is only theory or writings of inspired men. At worst, it was written by people on purple microdots. 56/60 # 105009 God the perfict. From: NAPOLEON on Thu Jun 1 3:35pm let ssay god e{ists... a rather large thing to assume but, lets go with this ok? God as believed in by man cot be flawless. if God were without flaws why does he demand that we live by his laws and obey his teachings unquestionably...such is not the }iaction of perfection... it is an act of great ego. God may be there he nmay do a lot of what has been said...if he is perfict...he is quitesad that we so misname the truth about him. NAPOLEON From: JIMI on Thu Jun 1 9:50pm Napoleon: Interesting with a handle like yours.. Little known fact but, the name Napoleon one translation is "God". Just a fact.. Believe it or not! 58/60 # 105057 great post S'Talon From: SUNSHINE on Fri Jun 2 12:58am I believe in the "truth" everyone believes in his/her truth...now if that is really true or not we won't know till we die will we...I don't like to get into religious arguments since you can argue till you pass out(a step further than "blue in the face") and it won't be resolved...it is all a matter of faith since nothing can be proven... as for the Bible...I believe that it is a book of stories written to teach morals and how to live socially-a book of etiquite-thou shalt not kill, no incest, eat with a fork and spoon and don't slurp your soup... as for Jesus...I believe he did exsist but as a teacher, a prophet...not a god as some christians believe-just look at that word-Christian...that is Christ...a follower of Christ, not GOD...so just where is the priorities there...I believe that he was one of the great "magicians", he used mind over matter-walking on water, changing water into wine...I have heard the same things said of Crowley and such... Now a question...I have heard some about the Wiccan beliefs and would like to know more...can anyone help me out...the same for taoism... 59/60 # 105092 Elohim From: FIRE ESCAPE on Fri Jun 2 12:59pm Elohim is a Uni-Plural noun. It is used in a SINGULAR context in the first chapter of Genesis even though the "im" ending is plural. It is as you say a Plural name with a singular meaning. This is because the God of the Bible is a uni-plural deity, One god composed of three persons, a trinity. Eloah is the Singular form and if the Jews had intended to convey an "absolute One" they would have used this word to describe God rather than using Elohim which is a "compound One". For example in Deuteronomy 6:4 "Shema Yisroel Adonai Elohenu, Adonai Echad" which is translated "Hear, O Irsael: The Lord our God is One Lord. The words "Our God" is actually "our Gods", plural. But this plural is not without condition. The "our Gods" is/are "One". The word for "one" here is "Echad". This word is indicative of a COMPOUND one, not an Absolute One. For instance, in Genesis 1:5 the combination of Marning and Night comprise ONE (Echad) day. In Genesis 2:24, a man and a woman come together in marriage and the two become ONE (Echad) flesh. In Ezra 2:64, we are told that the whole assembly was as ONE (echad), though it was composed of numerous people. A rather striking example is Ezekiel 37:17 where two sticks are combined to become ONE (echad). The use of this word implies a Oneness the is derived from numerous components. There is a word in Hebrew for an Absolute One, this is Yachid, but this word is NEVER used to describe Elohim. Tis True that God is One, and tis ALSO true that He is more than One, thus He is UNI-PLURAL, a Spiritual mystery. Further Revelation shows us that the plurality of God is limited to Three persons, hence the Christian belief of the Trinity, which is NOT a Triad. A Trinity is where three things are co-existent and co-terminous with one another. A Triad is composed of three Self-Existing entities. And I NEVER said that the Truth was within one! The Bible tells us that as sinners there is no good thing within any of us. Any goodness comes by God's grace in Christ. Tal you don't have to believe the Bible is true, but as I have offered before, there is ample proof, why not examine the Bible's prophetic record? Prescience as you call it is a supernatural gift, and since God alone has perfect knowledge, any revelation concerning the future from God would by necessity have to be perfect as well. I have a file if you want to examine it. And what does "Christ" mean if not Messiah, the Annointed of God? The Messiah was not a prophet, a good moral teacher only. The Bible says in it's messianic prophecies that the Messiah would be God himself, Emmanuel: This means God WITH us. Jesus himself CLAIMED to be this Messiah and He claimed to be God, this is why he was tried for Blasphemy. Personally I feel that if He wasn't really who He claimed to be, then he was either a Liar (a very unworthy attribute for a moral teacher!) or a Lunatic (An even Worse attribute for a great prophet or teacher!). So take your pick. 60/61 # 105114 Chrissy: From: THE GREEK SYNDICATE on Fri Jun 2 4:47pm If you like, I'll dig up my Eastern Religion notes and post The Basics of Tao, Shinto, Confucianism, etc., etc... but I have to see a message specifically asking me to do so, on account of: I am lazy. ---the Greek Syndicate 61/61 # 105264 Yknow From: YAMABUSHI on Sun Jun 4 12:25pm My last post (which is dead) was incoherent. Im worrying about me now. I WAS into every religion at one time or another and shinto still bothers be, inexplicably? 1/6 # 105758 Guess what guys and gals From: TRITON on Thu Jun 8 9:50pm The Pulpit is now under new management as S'Talon took it upon himself to delete the version he created. So much for freedom of speech. 2/6 # 105777 Um... From: DR. APOLOGETIC on Fri Jun 9 12:17am Not that I entirely blame him... 3/6 # 105787 now that From: COBRA on Fri Jun 9 1:34am is completely wrong on his part.. just because he doesn't have the same beliefs as most of the people who post on here... 4/6 # 105789 Hmm.. Part 50.. From: JIMI on Fri Jun 9 1:54am I doubt if that is why he did it. He just got tired of the same old debate. No one had poof to believe that god exsisted outside the bible. You can't always use the Bible to back you up for the Christians. Who is to say that the bible is true???? It was totally circular arguement that we all fell into...