65/75 # 104354 Don't worry Greek, even From: BURGUNDY-ORANGE BIFF on Tue May 23 1:24am the evil ?? Christians will not say that you do not have free will, cuz you do have free will......Biff 66/75 # 104357 multiply 1+1=2 From: CHILDHOOD TRAUMA on Tue May 23 2:38am by twoŽ hmm, several steps. 2(1)+1=2 2+ 2(1)=2 2+2=2(2) 2+2=4 umm. gee, that equation was not perfect for a while there... heh. actually, perfection has always been well defined by anselm, THAT perfection, god can not be and change. or consider it another way, the meaning. the equation doesn't change meanings, merely symbols. if the change from a potential savior to an actual savior isn't a change in meanings, I am quite lost. as an xian, I consider myself to intelligent to claim that god is perfect, lack of evidence, not logical. there are other better terms. In fact, the one quote that fe claimed conclusivly proved gods perfection was be perfect like god is perfect... ah, but that does not imply perfection of god, merely sets god up for the standard of perfection. want to enlighten us all on this perfection of god from a biblical point of view? be yellow as a bannanna is yellow... stay sane, as I am sanĺ ­ Childhood 67/75 # 104386 very good! From: MASTER LOCK on Tue May 23 4:13pm 68/75 # 104418 Well guys, From: BURGUNDY-ORANGE BIFF on Wed May 24 1:42pm certain people want to cut me down because I am a Christian, by saying I am a loonie, and I am violent and so on. And yet certain people (person) want to start trouble for others, yet everyone is always so down on all of my friends because they are christians (i.e. Fire Escape, Nu Kreechur, Prodigal Son). Well, I have a little story about a certain user for you all, then you can decide who is the bad guy... It was witnessed by Cobra, Lance, Myself and about 15 of Cobra's friends, (one of which is my friend). Anyway, we walked into the Steak and Shake on West Florissant to see these friends of Cobra, and I saw S'Talon. He was talking to some people with his back to me. I was sitting and talking to other people. Anyway, Cobra walked over to say hi to S'Talon and then S'Talon saw me, I said hi, what's happening--very friendlylike, and sincerely caring. Anyway S'Talon jumped up and started mumbling some things, of which all that I could understand were, "Your master is a demon". I replied that I have no master, and that he should calm down. He then told me that since I was a Christian, that FE was my master and she is a lying demon." I got upset first off due to the fact that he was pointing an umbrella at me in an attempt to make me feel threatened. I was upset and asked him to put down the umbrella cuz IF he hit me with it, I would proceed to shove it up his ass. He then vaulted over a table and started waving at me and calling me names in that little foriegn language that he uses. I told him that FE really cared about him, and that she was his friend for almost 5 years and that it wasn't right for him to keep shitting all over FE her husband and the others that care. I am impartial to the whole thing, but it really upsets me that someone as imbalanced as S'Talon will make up so many lies to hurt those that really care about him. S'Talon, I attest (with Cobra as my witness) that I did not make any aggressive movements towards you, the only thing that could even be construed as such was when I said I would put the umbrella up yer ass if you hit me. But that was no outright threat. People do care, and you want to hurt them. You want to hurt me for the sole reason that I am friends with FE. This is not fair, wake up. I hereby apologize for some comment I made about The Kid, he said I said something that offended him, I told him it was a joke, whatever it was, (I do not remember exactly what I said). But I am heartily sorry if indeed I did offend you, please accept my apology. (I am totally serious, no sarcasm should be read into this) Please forgive. 69/75 # 104435 I did not call From: S'TALON on Wed May 24 5:30pm FE a "lying demon". I said that your and her master is a "raving demon". (Refering to a preacher that has done much damage to me). And you still haven't admitted that you said "Since I wasn't a Christian, I'd be better off dead. Now I don't know whether you meant spirtually dead or phsyically, but I assume in context it meant physically. I do not take kindly to statements about my death, real or implied. Also, I have proof (which I will upload if necessary) about you denying it. With you, Biff I have learned that I need to text capture everything, and I should have text captured your E-Mail to me about "better off dead". Also, I took a defensive posture becuase you had threatened me. And if you ever lay a hand on me, I'll tear you apart, and as far as your little religous fanatic group caring about me or anyone else than I wouldn't have been kicked out of Moriah, nor would I have received flak from FE or Marc about my beliefs in pre-Christian religons, nor would I have been slandered on GE. (IF that really needs to be re-uploaded I have that text captured, but I think the people here remember that). Also, if you and your little group wants peace than stop being a virus trying to infect every board that you can get your hands on. I do not like religous viruses anymore than I like computer viruses. 70/75 # 104459 Perfection... From: FIRE ESCAPE on Wed May 24 10:34pm Going back to the previous discussion (I'm not getting into personal squabbles on the public boards - TACKY, TACKY, TACKY Tal).... S'Talon: You asked WHERE does it say God is perfect? Why in HIS Word the Bible of Course. You would expect a book written by and about Him would describe Him would you not? Try Deut. 32:4 or Psalm 18:30 for starters. Jesus told us in Matt 5:48 that God is perfect. Perfect is an absolute state, there is no degrees of perfection. Perfect means without fault or error. God is this. We are NOT. God Changes? Excuse me? It is the Biblical view that God changes NOT. He is completely immutable. "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does NOT CHANGE like shifting shadows do." James 1:7 Or what about Psalm 102:27 "But you (God) REMAIN THE SAME..." or Malachi 3:6, "I the Lord DO NOT CHANGE.."?? How can a Christian whose faith is based on the Jesus revealed to us BY THE BIBLE deny this truth?! Why prevents an unchangeable God from interacting with us? The ONLY people that can interact personally with God are those who are in covenant with Him through Jesus Christ. In which case God doesn't HAVE to become imperfect to interact with those who have been justified in Christ. It is a limitation of a finite human mind that prevents us from understanding how this is possible. But lets not limit God simply because we don't see how it is possible. As Jesus said, "What is impossible with man is possible with God." 71/75 # 104468 ok From: MASTER LOCK on Wed May 24 11:32pm 72/75 # 104477 fe fe fe From: CHILDHOOD TRAUMA on Thu May 25 1:24am DOES NOT CHANGE AS THE SHIFTING SHADOWS does NOT imply does not change. sheeah, have you spent any time with the notion of formal logic? just wonderings. cause god still never called himself perfect or unchanging even in the listed quotes. as for putdowns et al; Forgiveness is the most christian action of them all, I haven't seen any of the christians try it though. And I certainly understand beinç put down because I am a christian, but strangley enough it is the christians who put me down. the worm turns... 73/75 # 104481 THE WORM SQUIRMED From: CAVE MAN on Thu May 25 4:50am Seems to me that if some of the users want to have a personal conflict that they should do it religiously(on this suboard). I have tried to mention this before, but it seems to go unoticed, so i'll try again. Some folks jump up and down chanting heiroglyphics in an attempt to save others from themselves. But because the others dont share thier beliefs, they tend to take it as a personal attack. The magick users try to cast non-exsistant spells, then the Christians refuse to turn the otherer cheek. Now where was we? Oh yeah...here. While i disagree with your sourse FE, i agree with your message, and would like to add that any percieved changes in god were caused by the change in the perciever. While wewe may see god differerently, it doesnt change god, only our perception. If god is perfect then we would have to be much closer to perfection than we are, just to realize it. Which i consider the reason why we should try to get closer to god. Or... why would someone believe that "god didnt make little green apples"? 74/75 # 104484 Sometimes From: TRITON on Thu May 25 10:51am Christians forgive and don't tell anyone about it to protect the innocent. 75/75 # 104489 Forgivness.. From: FIRE ESCAPE on Thu May 25 11:55am And sometimes we forgive and forgive and forgive but the one being forgiven could care less, which is the case here I suspect. At any rate forgivness like prayer and fasting is a personal matter and shouldn't be done for public notice. CT: Those verses don't say God doesn't change huh? What language do you speak may I ask? It certainly isn't english if you can't understand that when the sentence says, "I CHANGE NOT", it means, I CHANGE NOT. What other meaning could it have in the context it is stated unless exactly what it says. You may think God is in the habit of lying to us and talking in gibblygook, but I don't. If He says, "I change NOT" then I believe that He changes not. I guess I'm just to logical. I tend to believe something that is stated so matter of factly. Maybe you could give me lessons on how to gleen these hidden meanings out of such obviously contray statements. It must be quite an art since no one else seems to do it quite like you. 53/66 # 104496 some From: YAMABUSHI on Thu May 25 4:30pm dont forgive because it doesnt get 'em anywhere, only when its profitable not meŽ WHat was that about personal disputes on the subs FE??? Attack NOT. - Yamabushi 54/66 # 104522 God's changing From: S'TALON on Fri May 26 12:05am FE, all those quotes you have given you say come from "His Word" in other words, the Bible. FE, you also say God wrote the Bible. Hence, if the Bible says that God is perfect, then God is making a boast. Something cannot be perfect just becuase it writes some scriptures and claims to be perfect. What OUTSIDE evidence, as in Non-Biblical that we have that God is perfect? As far as God saying "I change not" same sort of deal. He wrote that Himself. What OUTSIDE evidence is there that he changes not? In fact, outside evidence would seem to say that he changes quite a bit. 55/66 # 104531 um... From: THE GREEK SYNDICATE on Fri May 26 12:58am in case anyone is interested...from the viewpoint of deductive logic, S'Tal is absolutely correct in the immediately preceding message. Circular arguments don't work. Now, since I am a theist from the philosophic and religious viewpoints, I should probably point out (just to justify my own beliefs) that deductive logic doesn't necessarily apply in this matter. My point: You cannot try to build a sound argument out of "God wrote the Bible. The Bible says that God is perfect. Therefore God is perfect." However, you can still say "God is perfect" (without even resorting to logic). oh well...it's not like I'm being coherent, or anyone wants to read what I have to say, or anything... 56/66 # 104540 memo From: CHILDHOOD TRAUMA on Fri May 26 2:37am "I CHANGE NOT LIKE..." DOES NOT EQUAL "I CHANGE NOT". I change not like a soda machine, cos if you want back less that 3 bucks forget it... 57/66 # 104552 Circular arguments... From: DR. APOLOGETIC on Fri May 26 5:00am Sorry, FE, but I just can't accept the old 'limitations of the human mind' bit. It would be possible to explain anything, including satanism being the true religion, white supremacy, and the IRS (all of which I regard as ludicrous) by saying that it is just true, regardless of the fact that we don't understand it... that's like saying something is cold, even though it is hot... I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but I can't believe your arguments... 58/66 # 104619 ENOUGH! From: SYSOP on Fri May 26 11:29pm is enough is enough. Rule # 2 clearly states: This system shall not be used for user quarrels (see ules and regulations under the Files menu). Also, this rule does apply to E-mail though it is only enforced when something is brought to my attention. While this rule may not be from God, it is from me. Remember on my system, I have the power to incarcerate anyone to Squidland. God is limitted to hell. And, back to the usual old boring God stuff... 59/66 # 104670 Sysop From: HAWK on Sat May 27 4:35pm Please define "Boring"! This maybe be boring, But I can see it clearly needs to by disscutes! Boring or not Boring. 60/66 # 104676 Correction... From: DOCTOR SCOTT on Sat May 27 11:02pm First of all... God is not "limited" to anything.... and second of all... Sysop has a perfect right to do whatever he deems necessary to the image of his board.... and PETTY SQUABBLES BELONG IN EITHER E-MAIL OR SQUIDVILLE!!!!!! I, Personally, would like to get on with the interesting conversation on God.... please continue... but with caution! 61/66 # 104698 FE & All.. From: JIMI on Sun May 28 8:25am I would state for the record that the book oof which, I was speaking was a first Greek translation of "The Berashith". Which if you have looked at all is where your Biblios comes from. Since one of the translations of the word "Berashith" is, In the begining, or another is, He who created Six... Since this book wasn't translated into French until the late 1800's, the Greek was the better way to go.. Infact it was Authar E. Waite who supposedly who translated it into English.. I have a question than, "If your God is perfect than, why would he (she or genderless or androgenius) have created Lux Furo (Lucifer) a being that if he was omnipotent knew would fail? Since being omnipotent would give him the right to know everything and be everywhere. It doesn't make sense.. "Free Will" wouldn't have made it yet because Man wouldn't have been made it along yet..