71/88 # 102641 Hey Kid From: BIFF: F.E.'S PARROT on Sat Apr 29 1:19am I do not get rid of friends because of differing beliefs. I have friends that are heavy-duty satanists. I have friends that are blind-stymies (members of The Way Ministry; which S'Talon so openly condemns without actually knowing all that there is to it). I have friends that are atheists, my friends cover the whole range and I will not get rid of them for this difference. I tried to be nice to S'Talon; he hit me on the head and I think he figgers I'm supposed to shut up and be thankful I didn't get more- nope. I sometimes consider too many people my friends, even after they have horribly screwed my over many times. I think I'll take the time to share it with you, and ask you what you would do. In December 88 I totalled my car. I had just met a new group of friends that were part of The Way Ministry. I took their PFAL class and became active in the Ministry. About the same time I got an 82 EXP which I started buying High-performance equipment for. I met a man named Bill T. and he offered to do all of the labor for a very good price. I accepted all the while continuing with The Way and these friends. One friend named Rob told me to watch out, he had known Bill for a while and he was nothing but trouble. I said that he was just lonely and needed a friend. Anyway in March I moved back in with my parents and hadn't seen Bill since January. My girlfriend started bothering me with the idea of marriage. I said that we would wait until I got out of college and she told me the following: "My parents are going to move to Michigan and I will have to go and we will be seperated." I later found out that this was a deliberate lie. She also said that she couldn't deal with her parents anymore and needed me. Well at the end of July we got married and moved to St. Charles. A quick flashback here. Back when Bill was working on my Exp in December/January Debbie said she totally disliked him and feared him. I told her that there was nothing to worry about. When Bill and I were talking later, he (he didn't know of Debbie's fear of him), said how he'd like to get her into bed and that he bet me he could. I told him to shut up and get back to work, the comments continued everytime I saw him. cont..... Anyway, this all started in the December of 87 not 88, sorry. Anyway, I ignored his comments and shortly after didn't see him for quite awhile. Then I got married and moved. Shortly afterwards Debbie met a young black man at the apartments. The first I heard of it, I came home from work and my wife was sitting there next to him with my shotgun, talking. I asked whats up and he told me that they were just talking about the trials that Jesus went through in the book of Proverbs, and then asked me if I were a Christian. Anyway, Debbie and I finally went up to the apartment, and she said he was lying and I said I knew. She looked puzzled, and asked how. I said well, first off Jesus didn't exist till the New Testament and Proverbs is of the OT, secondly, I can tell in the first few minutes of meeting someone, what kind of person they are, and he wasn't a good one. Oh by the way, that is the same feeling I got about Bill, but I made an exception in his case, and became his friend. Anyway, I told Debbie to stay away from this fellow and (after I found out that what he was really talking to her about was how he felt a man should make love to a woman) to be careful. She told me I had no right to tell her what to do, and she would talk to him again. The next morning at work I got a call from her saying that he tried to rape her. I told you so, but she didn't wanna hear it. Anyway, the guy was in jail that night, and after this, we had problems in the bedroom, she was scared and upset from the incident. I told her I understood. All of this time, Bill had started coming around me again and starting helping me get my car ready for painting and adding spoilers and the like. Anyway, he heard what had happened and offered to help. Anyway, we started having him over for dinner and we would talk afterwards. And he talked to us seperately and Debbie and I started growing further apart. I told him and he said he knew. Anyway, he kept it up till finally Debbie wanted a divorce. So in November 88 we split up, under the premise of dating and remarrying after everything was straightened out. So then when she started doing things with Bill (who I forgot to tell you looks horribly gross, no I am not kidding) I started getting depressed and told her, she said she didn't know what to do . I just wanted to talk with her, but she wouldn't even do that. I had moved back in with my old friends from The Way and none of them even bothered to ask what was wrong. I was to the point of suicide and Bill offered me a gun and bullets, and Debbie said that there was nothing she could do about it. I never went through with the suicide attempt. In January I moved back in with my parents, and Back in December Bill sabotaged my car and wouldn't fix it. I had to sell it for $400 since I couldn't fix it. Anyway, I lost over $17000 in this marriage and I still have $2000 worth of credit card bills I am paying from her. Š Thå last two times I talked to Bill he attacked me, and the last time, he laughed and said, "Youre such a good christian and able to forgive anyone, lets see you forgive me." Anyway, I stopped seeing them and shortly thereafter I found out that Bill had stolen $500 from Debbie and had her believing I took it. She wouldn't listen, even with the proof I had. So anyway, I get an envelope from Debbie and the signature is not Debbie F., but Debbie T. There is more to it, but I'm sorry, I have already taken up enough space, now you all tell me, what would you have done? I was horribly screwed over by this guy, he takes everything I had and ends up marrying my wife and I suppose alot of you think I should make them pay right? Awaiting the comments. Biff: Thank you FE for life 74/88 # 102646 . From: S'TALON on Sat Apr 29 2:24am Well, we know what you are going to say, and you are going to give us the standard Jesus-trip. However, what you do with them is between you and your deity. 75/88 # 102650 ah, I love it From: CHILDHOOD TRAUMA on Sat Apr 29 2:48am I have to prove MY christianity. Heh. What a joke. There is no anger from me, just a realization of the wall I am banging my head on. let me spell it out. Please respond to each point. 1> why has the number never been publically posted on this sub-board when it was asked for? 2> what are the requirments to access project bbs 3> what man defines who is christian, of how to apply to biblical quoates to flesh and blood examples. 4> why am I being questioned and attacked for merely asking for access that is my right by your definitions? 5> why do people have to prove themselves 6> if god said you had a beautiful body would you hold it against him 7> if I am free to join in the total participation of project bbs and the slac, why is the freedom offered as a challange? 8> what is the purpose of project bbs 9> who runs project bbs and by what guidlines thank you for your time and effort. I am sure it has been quite difficult for you, after all, 50 msg's 50 evasions 50 half truths to a question started by cave man of "what exactly is your purpose". ah, the clique mentaility. at least you all seem to have the dogma AND the evasions down pat too of the tenants of most of the religions. And tempest, the glove was handed to you first, prove I am not a chrisitan. 76/88 # 102672 No, I was merely asking From: BIFF on Sat Apr 29 4:45pm your opinions.... If you wanna be a creep then that is fine, I don't have to prove myself to any of you Stympies. Yeah I am a Christian, Childish sTymie says, then he goes and cuts down the Bible by calling it a bunch of dribble.... Doesn't make sense. I try to open up and share my experience with everyone as a friend, and you, especially S Talon want to shit on me. Some witness, as to being a Christian I just down see it--what Christians. 77/88 # 102676 ah, I forgot From: CHILDHOOD TRAUMA on Sat Apr 29 6:14pm 11> why can't literalist read? self contradictary. Where did I call the bible dribble? HA! 78/88 # 102685 Read the whole msg...! From: THE KID on Sun Apr 30 3:54am Biffy gives all these reasons, condemnations, morality trips, etc (along with others) for condemning S'Talon but it sounds a hell of a lot like you got sick and tired of him, or didn't like his "Christian" approach, or just got tired of HIM, and that was the end of that. After all, to many of you, to be "CHRISTIAN" is to be LIKE YOU. It means you follow the same doctrinal philosophy, the same reality, the same goals, and the same tortured approaches to those outside your belief system. ANY - ABSOLUTELY ANY - DEVIATION THEREFROM is INTOLERABLE. S'TAlon was condemned a day ago right here...but he was WARNED...he KNEW what he was doing. Being EXCOMMUNICATED - the word I used and YOU adopted (the word, I would add, of the CATHOLIC Church which you assume, no doubt, is totally heretical in the first place) - by the Project BBS "Christian" community. BUT it was by his own choice, so that somehow makes your anti-intellectual, jingoistic, paranoid society BETTER because one of its former members KNOWS the PUNISHMENT for speaking out!? Hell, Jews knew the PRICE for speaking out against the Concentration Camps. I hardly consider the "punishment" (genocide) visited upon their kin to be JUSTICE or JUST. It was, is and always will be a heinous crime. "Christians" justifying the punishment of disbelievers (from their particular VERSION of christianity, I might add) IN ANY SHAPE, MILD OR NOT, are no different from Nazis in their approach to reality. If you had the power of the State behind you, I do not doubt the violence of your reaction to S'Talon's Act of Conscience. I do not doubt it a bit. I am certain he would end up dead somehow. It was clear as day in that post about how he KNEW what would happen to him... Beyond that, I have yet to see ANYONE telling Childhood Trauma how it is he goes about proving his "Christian" credentials to your elitist group of Immortals...NOR have I seen ANY statement of OBJECTIVE criteria beyond obedience to the Bible. This is a fascinating idea. YOU Project BBS people insist on PERSONAL presentation at a "Christian" interrogation session, apparently. And then later you insist upon adherence to your own specific interpretations of the Bible (but presumably focusing on the New Testament or otherwise you couldn't possibly exclude so many Jews, as you no doubt manage somehow to do) but you will not tell us what the ideology is which one must meet to join. THEN we see the falling back upon the right to freedom of association - which, by the way, I would defend to the death if it were challenged (before you decide to accuse me of being un-AMERICAN...since you no doubt think AMERICAN MEANS CHRISTIAN) - to JUSTIFY the joining together (valid) to INFECT (invalid) other systems with your "message" of "Christian" teachings. The ETHICS of the infection are what WE question. Do you choose to advertise your approach? No. Normally, you all come as if 'twere a plague of nice locusts, only to "visit" amongst the young plantings of the village. But you spread PESTILENCE and PLAGUE where ever ye travel. Ye denieth the pestilence and yet ye refuse the investigation of the doctors... I am intrigued by this inability to set OBJECTIVE STANDARDS for admission to your Project BBS. Indeed, I will not myself claim to be "Christian" in any sense that you choose, I think. But I think truly objective qualification WOULD include Childhood Trauma. But NO ONE seems willing to let him in! Or even consider it unless he subjects himself to personal encounters which he generally denies to even totally secular BBSes, as a rule. So we see here an organization which CLAIMS BENEVOLENCE but which is received on OTHER systems with much hostility and agreed to be much like a VIRUS by a former member. Methinks sufficient evidence is before the Grand Jury for the issuance on an Indictment on at least the charges of malevolent, viral infection by choice and of exclusionary, hostile membership practices guised in the form of compassionate religious mercy... 79/88 # 102727 ... From: TEMPEST on Sun Apr 30 11:42pm I step in after a long weekend, and the "discussion" is still quite heated. 'Nice' . First of all, CT, I never said I must prove or disprove your Christianity. Maybe those of you who own lions should quit thinking of your attack before you hear the defense. I'll make this short, because frankly, this isn't really worth it. 1) The number for SLACC BBS is 947-0895 2) The Administrator of PBBS...I haven't a clue 3) Who IS a Christian? Who am I to say? 4) The continued crap is not needed. Double-standards galore. I'll give it a week before I filter this subbie, because right now it isn't worth the time. I can go elsewhere for abuse. Check your motives and comments people, and then ask yourself this: "Who are you? Who are you to Judge?" I admit that it is true, generalizations claim that by majority rule Christians sux the big one. Good news -- Christ doesn't. 5) No challenge, no assualt, no insult -- just an editorial comment. 80/88 # 102729 CT, From: HYPERBOREAN MENACE on Mon May 1 12:33am You may want to refer to message #102576, where it appears you did indeed call the Bible "dribble". Not that I really care... As to PBBS and Elitist Christians... Nothing new. Spreading the "word of the Lord" has been always been the goal of Christians, usually without regard to the means. The crusades were fun... No wonder the Muslims are so full of revenge. Elitism? Christianity has always operated as a hierarchy. All equal in the eyes of (proverbial) God, except for the priest, monks, nuns, bishops, etc. The holier than thou attitude has existed since man invented religion, and, most likely, it always will. 81/88 # 102745 Read this: From: EZEKIEL on Mon May 1 2:13pm "Then He (Jesus) said to them, 'Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem'" Luke 24:46-47. Also, read this: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you..." Matthew 28:19-20. So you were wondering if we want to spread our good news? Yes, that is one of things we do quite often as Christians, at the least because Christ commanded us to. But we also do it out of love for the people of this world, because we want them to share the joys that we have experienced. We do not force our views on anyone. The reason why you people feel we force our views is because you see us repeatedly announce the gospel, in the hope that new people will respond to it. 82/88 # 102756 I wonder From: S'TALON on Mon May 1 6:40pm if Ezekial is able to think with his own brain, instead of quoting the Bible again and again. Ah, I forgot, thumpers don't think, they just do what their Raver preachers tell them to do.