To ->Most From ->Oliver Wendell Jones (#107) Sub ->Laughs... Date SU 07/13/89 02:06:48 AM Thanx for the compliments, guyz... I'm an official contented RV... And also... kinda phunny, quoting Joseph Goebells on a religion subbie, isn't it? But oh well, it fit... And to FE... you're starting to sound like you've been reading too much Barth... "Man is a riddle and nothing else, and his universe, be it ever so vividly seen and felt, is a question... The solution of the riddle, the answer to the question, the satisfaction of our need is the absolutely *new* event... There is *no* way which leads to this event." And also, "There is no way from us to God - not even a via negativa - not even a via dialectica nor paradoxa. The god who stood at the end of some human way - even of this way - would *not* be God." To ->Fire Escape From ->Sinbad (#123) Sub ->Last post Date SU 07/13/89 08:03:46 AM Fire Escape, you said it all! Wish I had something to add. Bravo To ->whomever the shoe fits... From ->SONGBIRD (#45) Sub ->... Date ->07/13/89 12:07:38 PM I think when your mind is as firmly made up as some are here the inflexibility of one's attempts to explore religious issues gets in the way of coming to God. To ->Fire Escape (#112) From ->Ratte (#109) Sub ->To be gained.... Date ->07/13/89 01:35:34 PM Why on earth would you think that I am trying to gain something other than Understanding from all of this? These philosophies interest me on an intellectual level only. The spiritual and emotional gains, I admit, are probably impossible for me to understand, fo I dont really believe in your God (I apologize if that offends in any way, but that's the way it is... I refuse to be less than honest about it). I am interested in the effects of religion on culture and morality in society, as I believe that I have previously mentioned. I am not here to seek God in any spiritual way, but rather interesting opinions and philosophies, which I believe to be the most important part of religion. Those philosophies are responsible for so much that mankind has done, from the most beautiful of Artworks, to the bloodiest of wars. Whether or not I believe in your Bible or God is hardly the point. How can one NOT be interested in the effects caused by such beliefs? Some of my favorite music stems from Christianity, and I am rather fond of religious art. I don't necessarily have to be a believer to examine the religion, its philosophies, and the effects thereof, do I? I certainly hope not, because I enjoy it, for some reason or another. Bringing up my own Ideas on the subject is hardly meant to offend... I'm just trying to get some sort of conversation started that isn't riddled with quotes from your favorite holy book. I know that might be difficult, because so much of the religion relies upon it, but quotes bore me, because I have my own copy (BELIEVE it or not!). Interpretations however, are an entirely different matter.... With the utmost sincerity, Ratte To ->Ratte From ->Fire Escape (#112) Sub ->God Date ->07/13/89 04:53:51 PM I can understand your view and I respect your honesty. Anything that I can offer informatively about the beliefs and nature of Christianity is at your disposal. I wish you well in your investigation, and I would be less than honest if I didn't say that In your examination of the teachings of Christ and it's impact on the world I sincerely hope you find Jesus in a spiritual way. To ->Oliver Wendell Jones (#107) From ->SONGBIRD (#45) Sub ->St. Thomas A Date ->07/15/89 08:21:02 PM When St. Thomas Aquina grappled with the 'insurance' issue it wasn't so hard, because Catholocism was the only game in town. If there's only one insurance company there's no point in trying to compare rates and coverage. To ->Birdy... From ->Oliver Wendell Jones (#107) Sub ->Good point... Date SU 07/17/89 05:41:18 PM But that's not really true... a good percentage of ppl back then were really aetheist, or at least agnostic... Aquinas went to the extreme, even if he was only interested in playing the only game in town, y'know? To ->All From ->Fire Escape (#112) Sub ->Insurance coverage (heh) Date ->07/18/89 12:14:26 AM Cute analogy there. If you must put it in terms as such, might I suggest that one choose the "insurance coverage" where the premiums have already been paid for by the agent! Jesus Christ Mutual Life (heheheh) Fire Escape (#112) From ->SONGBIRD (#45) Sub ->insurance... Date ->07/18/89 09:36:42 AM The Christian religion brings this type of thinkin on itself by threatening fire and brimstone all the time (look at your handle). SINCE THERE IS NO HELL there is no need for insurance. (Sorry -- couldn't resist.) To ->SONGBIRD (#45) From ->Ratte (#109) Sub ->Handles... Date ->07/18/89 12:32:03 PM HEY!!! I LIKE HER HANDLE!!! I think its kida cute... but there may very well be a hell, and since many religions believe that it's "their way or damnation" (and it may very well be true that there is only one way to "heaven"), we could all end up dancin' in front of Lucifer with hot tootsies. After all... what if no one's right? Its a scary thought to some people, but the possibility exists that there is a God, and that none of us know anything whatsoever about this God. What's worse, we just may be P*ssing God off. I dont know about you, but that prospect entertains me to no end... (sorry, I couldn't resist!) To ->Ratte (#109) From ->SONGBIRD (#45) Sub ->That's the trouble with the whole bunch of us here... Date ->07/18/89 03:36:58 PM NO CONTROL! (couldn't resist...) I like her handle too, by the way. It certainly suits her purpose. To ->all humanity From ->Head of Swings (#36) Sub ->Yes.............. Date SU 07/18/89 05:39:01 PM YES, Brothers and Sisters, I have the answer. I mean, HE has THE answer! Lord Jesus came to me last night! He told me, "Spread the word through the Message Base". Yea, verily, Jesus is just alright with me! I intend to spell the beginning of the end for the forces of Satan in MY LIFETIME! HE has planned it out for me, and I have received the calling to implement the spread of TRUE FAITH throught the world of telecommunications! Think about it Brothers and Sisters, JESUS is a BBSer. Better believe that HE'S got a rightous (sp?) 9600 baud! He uploads, we download! Praise the LORD! Yea, Brothers and Sisters, the power is within HIS grasp. Now, to complete this task of salvation for all, I need your help. I'll post a box number later this evening where you can send your love offerings to assist HIM in his divine labors. Also, on a purely administrative note, volunteers are needed! ŠThe Reverend HOS needs your help, Sisters, little Sisters. HIS work must be done by true believers who understand the importance of compliance and unswerving faith in the Reverend HOS's directions to achieve HIS goals! If you are willing to volunteer, Little Sister, bless you. You little sisters (ages 13 to 16) can leave the Reverend HOS your phone numbers so that he can arrange a private discussion of the importance of this work! Bless you, Brothers and Sisters. The Reverend HOS To ->reverend HOS From ->D.C. (Dog <-> God) Sub ->donations... Date SU 07/18/89 10:51:38 PM Always remember that the Message Base receives a portion of all donations.... praise be... To ->Most From ->Oliver Wendell Jones (#107) Sub ->Well... Date SU 07/19/89 03:53:03 AM As you all know, I'm sure, God himself comes to me at exactly 6:38am daily to wake me up and let me set my watch... well, when he came this morning, I asked him about this whole religion thing. He said, and I quote, "Religion THIS, buddy!" I hope that clears up some questions for all of you..® -And if it does, explain which ones to me, I'm interested... %=) To ->Oliver Wendell Jones From ->Fire Escape (#112) Sub ->God's visitations Date ->07/19/89 03:28:45 PM Why OWJ!? I didn't know you lived with The Greek Syndicate!? Imagine that. Everyone Knows that God visits The Greek before anyone else, at exactly 6:30 ish every morning. Maybe God has a sattelite link?? To ->FE From ->Oliver Wendell Jones (#107) Sub ->No no no... Date SU 07/21/89 01:48:08 AM Random and I worked out a deal... he gets God from 6:30-6:39, then he comes to visit me so I can set my clock... Random was sick of me being late for everything... I thought we had explained all this somewhere recently.. hmmm... maybe you were out of town at the time... oh well... -Remember, don't play Scrabble with God To ->Most From ->Oliver Wendell Jones (#107) Sub ->Gee... Date SU 07/24/89 02:06:44 AM I really have a way of dropping the seriousness quotient of a board, and religion subbies in particular... too much comic relief? Oh well... anyone got a good argument? %=) To ->Oliver Wendell Jones (#107) From ->SONGBIRD (#45) Sub ->Thanks... Date ->07/25/89 10:30:33 AM Don't let us all take ourselves too seriously! To ->All From ->Bill Stewart-Cole (#237) Sub ->Favorite st.'s Date ->07/25/89 07:23:01 PM Okay, so It's a dead thread, but I am quasi-new and found it interesting. St. Francis of Assissi by far. (too many sssssssss's but I'm not sure where) Anyway, just wanted to say HI! I'm intrigued by the presence of a relig. sub-board. I guess the board title requires me to testify so hear goes: I am a christian. small 'c' I recently resigned my church membership out of a long-term disappointment with my church. Despite my religion I feel that more damage has been done to christianity in the past 20 years by the re-birth of the belief in biblical inerrancy than 300 years of secular humanism has done. Translated : I consider Falwell, Robertson, Bakker, Swaggert, and the rest of fundamentalist protestantism to be demogogues who turn the message of hope, forgiveness and love into a message of hate. ( if it makes any difference, I also do not see the message of Jesus as conflicting those of Moses or Gautauma Buddha)® Have I started a discussion? To ->Bill Stewart-Cole (#237) From ->Frank Tang (#111) Sub ->etc. Date ->07/25/89 10:40:32 PM No. To ->Frank Tang (#111) From ->Bill Stewart-Cole (#237) Sub ->Re: etc. Date ->07/26/89 04:48:03 PM oh well i tried.... To ->Dr. Bill (#237) From ->SONGBIRD (#45) Sub ->... Date ->07/27/89 10:25:15 AM You'd make a great Unitarian! To ->SONGBIRD (#45) From ->Dr. Bill (#237) Sub ->well... Date ->07/27/89 12:13:28 PM I guess you're right, but I'm not much of a joiner. I suffered the problems in my last church for 4 years before leaving, and am afraid that even if I choose more carefully in my next church, I may end up unhappy there. I am satisfied right now with being an independent christian. To ->SONGBIRD and Bill From ->Oliver Wendell Jones (#107) Sub ->Thingz... Date SU 07/28/89 02:42:32 AM Oops... Songbird: Me? Take myself too seriously? You must have mistaken me for someone else! I don't have a serious bone outside my body... Bill: Favorite saints... mine are the New Orleans ones... To ->All From ->Fire Escape (#112) Sub ->Biblical Christianity Date ->08/04/89 02:43:13 PM How can anyone say that Christianity as REPRESENTED by the Bible (Which is the foundation of Christian teaching) is compatible with any form of humanism or good-works religion? Was it not Jesus who said that "Unless you are born of the water and The Spirit of God, yu can not enter the Kingdom of God." (John 3:5) and Did not Jesus say "I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved." (John 10:9) or "I am the Way, The Truth and the Life. No one comes to God the Father except through me." (John 14:6). Jesus TAUGHT that salvation was not only Necessary for mankind, but that it could ONLY come by faith in Himself. Good works and a good life are not sufficient to secure one's right standing with a perfect God. All other religions teach SELF-redemption or SELF Actualization. Biblical Christianity is in opposition to all secular teaching in that it demands total submission and dependence upon God the Son. Be very sure of what Christianity teaches before making blanket statements that it is compatible with other philosophical and religious precepts. Jesus WAS NOT a Unitarian and neither are CHRISTIANS! To ->Fire Escape (#112) From ->Dr. Bill (#237) Sub ->Re: Biblical Christianity Date ->08/04/89 05:40:23 PM Sorry, but as a non-demoninational (i.e. ex-church member) CHRISTIAN(!) I disagree. I cannot believe that the assembled, edited, freely translated, and weede material that makes up the modern version of the bible can be considered the perfect authority on what is the way to salvation. The men (note gender) who decided what was acceptable as biblical over the ages have not all been perfect. Of the 4 accounts we have today of the life of Christ, 3 are apparently derivative from the original (which approximates Matthew) whose origin appears to have been in Aramaic in Asia Minor around 100-200 a.d. the 4th m(John) did not appear for another century, and in its oldest forms is a bare-faced tract of anti-Gnostic stories which are acknowledged as hypothetical tales of what Jesus might have done. I distrust anybody who quotes christ over 60 years post-mortem, or who relies on translations to English via greek and latin of an originally aramaic text. And furthermore: Quoting from John is very shaky.Even if you accept that the Gospels were written by their supposed authors, it is very difficult to accept that the stories of Christs life and teaching in the first three are compatible with John. It would seem crazy for Matthew, Mark, and Luke to omit some seemingly important parts of John, or for John to gloss over so much of the early life of Christ. Which is closer to what Christ REALLY said? no one can say, but the exclusivity of John, which borders at times on anti-semitism and Calvinism, really turns me off. It appalls me that a theology centered on love and forgiveness can be considered as excluding from salvation the vast majority of humanity who never heard of Christ.