Name: Chris Downs #150 Date: 9:37 am Tue Mar 28, 1989 Begginning of Life.. To say that "life begins at conception" is stricly a matter of faith. Life doesn't begin at conception. Both the egg and sperm are alive. Pasteur showed quite some time ago that life is a continuum. Name: Stever #638 Date: 12:08 pm Tue Mar 28, 1989 Right. or without the sperm or the egg you don't have conception. Name: Ironman #566 Date: 4:18 pm Tue Mar 28, 1989 Greek, I am probably going to sound like a broken record, but here goes. 4000 abortions a DAY is a shame. This is, is my opinion, 4000 a DAY too many.BUT, and I must repeat, BUT: Just how many BIRTHS are there a day ? Assuming, oh, let's say 12 million a year, then we have about 30, 0000 births a DAY ! So on the side of Life and Light and, yes, GOD we have 30,000 victories a day. On the side of death and darkness and, yes, Satan, we have 4000 defeats a day. So, I ask you, who rules ? Pretty clear to me. Name: Fire Escape #62 Date: 9:58 pm Tue Mar 28, 1989 Freedom: GOD is helpless? Oh Puhleassse give me a break. God is being merciful in witholding our judgment until every person has had a change to repent and hear the good news. God could do whatever He wanted whenever He desired to, but the testamony of His love and longsuffering is that he allows us to continue onward in hopes that we will change our attitude and love him instead of the world. A day is coming soon when we will receive the full dues for our rebellion and if you are not paid in full with Jesus Mutual Life Inc then you are SOL bud. Fire Escape Name: Snappy #72 Date: 10:52 pm Tue Mar 28, 1989 I have asked before.. no answer: You have never defined why abortion is evil. You have never eqauted it to death. If you ever were able, you would not be able to eqate death with Evil. You do not have an argument, just a lot of posts. You dropped this argument every time, therefore, either you agree with my point, or you cannot argue against it. I therefore claim victory for myself and all who argue agaiunst the Greek, as he is unable to support his main premise. Name: Walt #431 Date: 11:52 pm Tue Mar 28, 1989 Greek: As usual, you contradict yourself. Up to now your argument has always been that God WILLED Satan to rule the "physical plane". Therefore, God willed evil to exist, right? Then you say that evil cannot be good, and good cannot be evil, so how does the fact that God wills evil to exist fit in? Good is willing evil. Explain that one. (Don't avoid the issue and simply repeat yourself for the hundreth time).® Also, tell me, what is Satan? Name: Legacy #500 Date: 1:29 am Wed Mar 29, 1989 Glob of tissue: The important thing for women to understand is that by the time they know they are pregnant, just after they have skipped their first menstrual period at about six weeks, brain waves are detectable and the heart is beating. Between the 6th and 7th week, the nerves connecting the spinal cord are in place. And, by the end of the 8th week, a miniature infant is clearly formed, all body systems are present, and from that time on, the changes in the body will be primarily in dimension and refinement of working parts. Do you think that most women would go through with an abortion if they new they were't just CHOOSING to get rid of a glob of tissue that someday, somehow, would develop into a baby? Name: The Greek #11 Date: 5:41 am Wed Mar 29, 1989 To the Brainwashed: What the hey are you telling me that abortions are GOOD????? If not Satan rules, nuff said Name: Snappy #72 Date: 12:18 pm Wed Mar 29, 1989 Abortions: I am not say that abortions are good or bad. In some cases they are good, in some cases they are bad. Your whole entire flaw is that you cannot defone why abortions are bad. You merely state that they are. You said that before that all abortions performed are all of the good people, and all bad and evil people survive. By your own argument then, the best thing to do is require abortions for every circumstance in order to be good. As far as a fetus being alive. It's tisue is organic, but it is not alive on it's own, it is not a person. when a person dies, he has no conscious state, but many cells in that persons body stay alive for some time. Fingernails and hair are even known to grow after death. Therefore, the argument by Legacy, states that corpse are living. Name: The Doc #164 Date: 1:10 pm Wed Mar 29, 1989 I was raised a Catholic, but I have developed my own hypothesis on all religions. It will probably offend the faithful, but here goes. I believe religion was invented by man to give him some kind of explanation for the unexplained. It grew, but when some people became disenchanted, the leaders created the story of the devil and hell to scare the people into believing their religion. In other words, they told the people "if you don't believe, you will burn in hell!" It was an effective form of mind control. I could go on about my beliefs, but it will wait till later. Let me know on this board what you think. Name: Bob #485 Date: 2:46 pm Wed Mar 29, 1989 Something like that Doc.. When faced with the unknown, there are basically 3 reactions. Some say "ehhh, so what". Some are curious and explore. Most suffer an anxiety attack. Religion is an anxiety balm... Name: Shawn #123 Date: 5:28 pm Wed Mar 29, 1989 WHY IS ABORTION EVIL? YOU'RE MURDERING BABIES!!! WHY CAN IT BE ALIVE IF IT IS DEPENDANT UPON IT'S MOTHER? IF A MAN IS USING AN ARTIFICIAL HEART WOULD YOU KILL HIM? HUH THOUGHT YOU WOULDN'T!! P.S. FOR ALL YOU PRO-CHOICE PEOPLE I WISH YOU WERE ABORTED SO WE WOULDN'T HAVE THIS KILLING GOING ON!! Name: Ironman #566 Date: 6:45 pm Wed Mar 29, 1989 Bob, perhaps religion is an anxiety balm. In my opinion, however, a religious relationship with God is a medicine which can cure what ails ya ! When faced with the unknown of " Was Jesus real ? ", some on this board display the attitude of " Eh, so what ". Some do suffer anxiety attacks. And some ( wish it were ALL ) get curious and explore. There's LOTS of evidence out there, folks. Check it out. Name: The Greek #11 Date: 10:39 pm Wed Mar 29, 1989 The evidence was swallowed by a girl named Bambi.. Name: Walt #431 Date: 11:02 pm Wed Mar 29, 1989 Shawn: Quite a hypocritical sentiment you display at the end of your last post. Name: Legacy #500 Date: 12:38 am Thu Mar 30, 1989 Fetus: The cortex, which is fully developed later on in pregnancy, only allows the unborn baby to evaluate the sensation of pain, in addition to being able to feel and react to it. a fully developed cortex is not absolutely neccessary for normal human activity. In fact all the body parts needed to experience pain are well developed in the 12-week-old unborn baby. The nerves, spinal cord and the thalamus of the brain, where sensations like heat, cold, pain and touch first become conscious. Snappy--What is the difference between a baby the day before it is born and the day after? Name: The Greek #11 Date: 11:56 am Thu Mar 30, 1989 The day after it is legally a citizen in the country where it is born. For us that means it has to dodge that coat hanger for aproximately 12 approximately 8 or 9 months in most cases. Maybe we are bleeding a quicker race through the process of natural selection??? grin Name: Fire Escape #62 Date: 4:48 pm Thu Mar 30, 1989 Life has been clinically accepted to END when brain waves cease, thus LOGICALLY then Life would have to begin when Brain waves appear. Now I want t know WHY are we killing unborn babies when it is plainly obvious that they have brainwaves identical to any infant!? Why? Convienence! So many people put their god of convienence before the rights and life of another person. Why is our country so two faced and hypocritical that it will charge a person with murder if he causes an unwanted abortion while attacking a pregnant woman, yet if that woman decided it wasn't "convienent" for her to have the baby, she could cause a WANTED abortion and not be charged with murder. Is the measure of murder then dependent upon the degree to which a person is WANTED?!? Tell Me! It makes me wanna toss my cookies! Fire Escape Name: Snappy #72 Date: 5:56 pm Thu Mar 30, 1989 The difference: A fetus is part of the woman who is carrying it. Mediically, it fits the description of a tumor. After is is born, it is an entity unto itself. A person is not a mother or a father until their child is born. A fetus is not a child until it is born. In answer to your question of what is the difference between a baby on its birthday and the fetus the day before..... One day. In that one day the fetus stops being a part of the woman, and becomes itself. One short, but very significant day. Name: The Greek #11 Date: 10:44 pm Thu Mar 30, 1989 What a breath of fresh air concerning the a issue? Tell me this can't be true- I'll have to grab that book and look up something for an illogical reply to a logical and clear answer to a logical question, let me see here oh yes yes here it is right under this chapter 3 verse 22 line 3 with the guilded letters, dogma dogma I tell you.grin Name: Legacy #500 Date: 2:59 am Sat Apr 01, 1989 You missed it again Snappy. The child in the womb can in NO WAy be considered part of the mothers body at ANY stage. A fetus is a complete, separate being from the very begining, with its own genetic code completely different from the mother's. The fetus has its own blood supply; the type is often different from the mothers. In all organic respects, except from the sourse of nourishment, the unborn baby is completely separate from the mother. Name: Snappy #72 Date: 12:40 pm Sat Apr 01, 1989 So then.. Why do you care if they take it out? After all, I wouldn't want a foriegn object in my body. Name: Legacy #500 Date: 7:22 pm Sun Apr 02, 1989 Snappy.. Now you change postions 180 degrees, Either it is an entity in and of itself or it is not. Make up your mind and be consistant! RE:49, It sound to me like you can be swayed in your position on abortion because you really don't have the facts at your disposal or were you just "going with the flow" I think if you were presented the facts as I do in my posts more people would make an informed choice.(modest aren't I) Name: Snappy #72 Date: 9:35 pm Mon Apr 03, 1989 Not at all.. I was merely using the argument against itself, thereby showing the internal inconsistancy. I believe a fetus is part of the woman until birth. If someone Ùlse chooses to think of this as not being the case, I offer an argument that makes the entire point moot. Name: The Greek #11 Date: 10:15 pm Mon Apr 03, 1989 And furthermore.. my sperm is also also has a genetic code therfore when I went to visit Ginger last night® whoops looks like we murdered a few million oh well you win some you lose some.... Name: Fire Escape #62 Date: 2:36 pm Tue Apr 04, 1989 Greek: The genetic code of your "sperm" is entirely identical to your own genetic code found in any other cell of your body. Once that cell you call a sperm combines your genetic code with another's genetic code they combine and form a totally UNIQUE and DIFFERENT genetic code than anything found in your body or the mothers. That new creation is a unique special person seperate in genetic structure from you or it's mother. It is no longer YOU or HER, it is ITSELF. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO HARM ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL. Fire Escape Name: Mildate #336 Date: 2:08 pm Fri Apr 21, 1989 Bleep..why don't you spend the time to read the Bible if you don't believe in God. You will find that the Bible gives much more proof to the existance of God than anyone on the board can give.