Collection of messages from the Religion Conference on The Parthenon BBS and from the Religion Conference on The Message Base BBS between March and September 1989. Collected and condensed by Fire Escape, January 1995. ========================================================================= THE PARTHENON BBS ----------------- Name: Stever #638 Date: 1:14 pm Thu Mar 23, 1989 Yea I get those guys on bicycles coming around and preaching all the time. Don't those guys work or anything??? Name: Fire Escape #62 Date: 4:55 pm Thu Mar 23, 1989 You don't think that's Work?!? Then you try it sometime. Work, I'll give you work! ;) Name: Bleep #250 Date: 7:53 pm Sun Mar 26, 1989 Religion is the opiate of the masses. Name: The Greek #11 Date: 7:05 am Mon Mar 27, 1989 Opium and other drugs are the religion of the masses. Name: Big Pink #153 Date: 1:14 pm Mon Mar 27, 1989 Masses are the religion of opiates. Name: Elbereth #377 Date: 6:29 pm Mon Mar 27, 1989 Snappy, you're wrong.. the fact that a rock band wrote a rock song based on the bible (the Byrds and Turn, Turn, Turn is your example...actually, there are many, some of which were written wpecifically for religious reasons..listen to 104.9 FM) does NOT DECISIVELY squelch the argument that Satan writes rock songs; those who choose to believe so (I am NOT of that persuasion, just pointing out a flaw in your logic...) will point out that the their argument that Satan writes rock music is not refuted by the fact that a bible verse is used in a rock song, because this doesn't mean that Satan wrote the Bible (the Bible precedes the song, after all); it just means that he is QUOTING part of the Bible as part of one of his songs! In no way do I believe that all rock music is written or inspired by the devil; some songs may be, but most aren't...some are obviously quite religious, while some are obviously morally repugnant, perhaps even satanic; most are just songs. Name: Chrissy #186 Date: 1:50 am Tue Mar 28, 1989 Sin.. can you explain what is sin...as alot of people know I concieved Greg (GAB} out of wedlock and didn't marry the man that helped...I would in no way consider the pregnancy a sin...what I would consider a sin would be the people that think of me or him as sinful people...In no way would I trade a single thing I did that resulted in the beautyful son I have, no regrets or remorses...so would that mean that I continue to live in sin since I don't want forgiveness for the joy of my life? Chrissy Name: Stever #638 Date: 12:03 pm Tue Mar 28, 1989 Of course not.. Only a prude would consider a beautiful baby in any way as a sin. Where are the biblicals when you need them? Name: Fire Escape #62 Date: 9:46 pm Tue Mar 28, 1989 Sin as used in the Bible is commonly traced back to a Greek Archery Term "HAMARTIA", this basically means "To miss the Mark or to Miss the Bullseye". So when applied to morality, SIN means to fall short of the Goal. What is the Goal you might ask? The Bible says "Be ye HOLY as I am HOLY" (God speaking)..so the Goal is to be as PERFECT as God is PERFECT. NOw according to this definition we can really understand Roman's 3:23 when it says "ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD." So every human being, NO MATTER HOW "GOOD" they are, is a SINNER. Me, you, Mother Thereasa, Charles Manson, we are all EQUALLY SINNERS in God's eyes. ALL have missed the Bullseye. This is the foundation of Christianity, ALL people NEED a SAVIOR because ALL people are IMPERFECT. Sin = Imperfection. Real simple. No one is any better than the next person because no one is perfect. God doesn't grade on a CURVE people. There is an ABSOLUTE A+ 4.0 Standard and NO ONE makes the grade, that is why the ONLY way to be "right" with God and have a relationship with Him is THROUGH a Mediator, a Savior, and Jesus is the one God provided. Guess that's all there is to it, people try to add rules and stipulations to that, but it's all extra garbage. The Bible says in Ephesians 2:8-9 that "You are saved BY Grace (undeserved favor) through Faith and it is not of YOURSEVES, but it is a GIFT (free of course or it wouldn't be a gift) of God, NOT by good works so no one can brag." Fire Escape Name: The Greek #11 Date: 7:44 am Tue Mar 14, 1989 When life begins.. Still haven't foound a suitable answer. Simple question for those who claim to know when life begins, is it the potential for life, is it the thought, is it only at conception, birth-- when does life begin?? If you can't answer this, then you can not claim abortion is murder. Name: Ironman #566 Date: 1:39 pm Tue Mar 14, 1989 Yes, I can. Yes, I do. Yes, It is. Name: Tempest #335 Date: 5:42 pm Tue Mar 14, 1989 Russell, since I am considered a liberal concerning abortion (I think it is murder, but I am against forceful intervention), I can say this. Abortion is a symptom (as are child abuse and neglect) of a sexually irresponsible, self-centered society. Name: Saxist #193 Date: 7:23 pm Tue Mar 14, 1989 Aye, there's the rub. But it is simpler to cover up the symptom than cure the disease. At least that is what is being attempted. I don't know when life begins. Life is more than just a unique combination of DNA molecules. Scientists can fabricate strands of DNA out the wazoo and none of those molecules separately or collectively could be called living. God would not have me force my beliefs about him or christ or redemtption on anyone. That person must have the choice for their belief to mean anything. Likewise, I cannot force my views concerning when life begins on anyone; it is just as wrong. Maybe the whole war on pro-choice/pro-life/anti-choice/anti-life/etc is moot. Maybe the entire sum of our discussions is the "missing of the mark." Name: Tempest #335 Date: 9:16 pm Tue Mar 14, 1989 Whoa Saxist, You understand what I am saying. Amazing, you mean I am coherent maybe. Wow, I feel special. We can not superimpose our mind on another, that is wrong and unethical. We can share and hope that others will be blessed if we do so in love. So, all of you--be blessed...no matter what your belief. Name: Bc #174 Date: 2:53 am Wed Mar 15, 1989 Life begins with the first sip of beer on a hot sweaty day. Name: The Greek #11 Date: 11:34 pm Thu Mar 16, 1989 If life begins as a pottential- then how far back do you go? If you back to the very beginning then you go back to he original parents. If this is true, then tthe male commits murder everytime he has a midnight ejaculaion in his sleep- and the female kills or murders potential life everytime an egg or two is released (about every 28 days) or so. The potential theory is very weak, and full of problems.. Name: Legacy #500 Date: 1:15 am Fri Mar 17, 1989 What to do with 4000 new lifes - An economic veiwpoint: We are at the point in societal evolution that there are now more people over 35 than under. There used to be (when Social Security started) more workers contributing than there are now (currently 3 workers for everyone on SS). Abortion started (legally) in 1973, 1991 would be the year these adults would be entering the work force. PAying taxes, contributing to SS, Starting business, coming up with new ideas of better ways of doing things, increasing productivity. No no no all they would be is a burden to our society filling up prisons, backlogging the court system, getting on welfare. How do you see it? Name: Bc #174 Date: 2:40 am Fri Mar 17, 1989 Most of the aborted kids...were probably aborted for financial reasons. So take a look at the average child born into a family of below average income. My guess is that it would be VERY near the break even point on welfare payouts and the income from income taxes from those unborn. It really depends on the way the economy goes. If we get a recession, the unemployment would be higher, if the economy continues to grow, there would be a few extra consumers... Name: Zorkoff #249 Date: 3:40 pm Fri Mar 17, 1989 Life in my opinion, has the ability to continue to live. Once the egg is fertilized, it is alive. The fact that it requires nutrition, protection, etc. from another source, can be compared to our own dependance on Mother Earth. It does not mean that we are not alive because we cannot live without her. Like Tempest, I believe that abortion is murder, but I am against forceful intervention. Until the problem of unwanted pregnancies is solved, there must exist an alternative. Too much effort is wasted on the alternative, and not on the problem. Name: The Greek #11 Date: 6:23 pm Fri Mar 17, 1989 Well ok..But he egg can not be fertilized without tthe sperm- so is it the sperm befoore fertilization or the egg woithout the sperm. Name: Snappy #72 Date: 12:51 am Sun Mar 19, 1989 Your biggest fallacy.. Everyone who states abortion is evil is defining it as such with no basis. First off life does not begin at conception. Secondly, even if it did, saying that abortion is evil is saying that death is evil. If death is evil, why did God have his only son killed on the cross? As far as the Western Names matthew, mark , Luke, and John. Like the various other westernized names, they are just that, westernized. They are the equivelent of the names in the original bible (written in Greek or Hebrew or variations thereof Just as Johann in German = the English John, there is some variation in greek or hebrew which equates the same meaning. For Example the name Peter = Rock. Trtanslated into any language, Peter can be a lot different. Name: Ironman #566 Date: 8:19 am Sun Mar 19, 1989 First off, life does begin at conception. Snappy, you missed the point on God having His son , Jesus, die on the cross. A LOT of good people have died for good causes. The difference with Jesus is that he conquered death® Not too many folks I know of that can say that. Name: Snappy #72 Date: 10:50 pm Sun Mar 19, 1989 Well maybe.. i did oversimplify. But let me ask you this. If God is so opposed to death, why didn't he create man as an immortal? Name: The Greek #11 Date: 12:54 am Mon Mar 20, 1989 Life begins at conception?? Then why is there 9 months then birth- why because satan is allowed to choose which lives are spared. Satan is tthe ultimate chooser of life and death- those he allows to live are evil- those he chose to abort were possibly good, Satan is all powerful- he rules. Name: Walt #431 Date: 1:20 am Mon Mar 20, 1989 Greek: If you are being serious, I pity you. You've definitely got Satan on the brain. You must be a very frightened person. If not, you must get some perverse pleasure in saying things that will annoy people. Do you ever think of all the love that goes on here on earth? Maybe you should sometime. Name: Ironman #566 Date: 8:27 am Mon Mar 20, 1989 God gave man the freedom to choose. That's a great gift® God also gave man the chance to become immortal® He gives man the opportunity; all man has to do is make the right choice® Again, another great gift. Name: Walt #431 Date: 2:05 am Tue Mar 21, 1989 Greek: As I read through these posts again tonight, your post "Life begins at" once again amazes me. Every time I scroll through and read it, it seems more and more ridiculous. "Satan is tthe ultimate chooser of life and death- those he allows to live are evil-those he chose to abort were possibly good, Satan is all powerful-he rules." Come on now, that has got to be the zenith of stupidity that I have experienced on any bulletin board. If you really think that, you must think that you yourself are evil. Oh well, enough said. I really oughtn't get upset about this stuff.