06/05/89 20:35 SYSOP blah i have a job......and come up with and analize such ideas dayly....why the f*** do you think im so damn depressed........ yeah a little good sex would do wonders i suppose......but a log of REALLY HOT STEAMY SEX would be even better.... :) 06/05/89 20:43 SYSOP blah i've read some of the koran......but when i got to the part about "and in heaven there will be 7 virgins waiting for you"......i knew it was a load of crap.....sounds like hell to me.....i mean have your ever tried to satisfy 7 women that don't know what sex is!!!....granted you have eternity....but then again they are always virgins....blah... anyways.....i have started on the works of loa tse.....and some others....but they all are not light reading....(try to get something coherent out of "the 3 pillars of zen"!!) 06/05/89 23:31 CORDLESS batting 4th tonight Was Godzilla a prophet? 06/06/89 03:17 OWENJ Just plain Oliver "And the world wouldn't REALLY be a better place with Godzilla chewing on part of it...¢ No, I don't believe so... I think he was a profit... 06/06/89 03:19 OWENJ Just plain Oliver Ooh, baby, philosophize me! 06/06/89 08:42 MEDIC -=>MEDiC PROBABLE<=- Ironman, what makes you so certain that your beliefs on Christianity constitute a "serious discussion" any more than our (entirely more logical) arguments to the contrary? Also, I noticed that Sunshine's account code is Crystal... shall we rub her to prove/disprove any of our "new age theories" (blah)? I'll be the first to try... 06/06/89 08:45 MEDIC -=>MEDiC PROBABLE<=- Somebody could make a movie... "Deep Thought" 06/06/89 20:37 ZXCVBNM tigris lenis Oh, just a thing about change.... Why is the "cosmological constant" supposed to equal 0? 06/06/89 20:40 ZXCVBNM tigris lenis Crystals only power comes from the monetary value our society gives them. 06/06/89 20:41 ZXCVBNM tigris lenis Doubtful to be as invigorating though... 06/07/89 03:38 OWENJ Just plain Oliver Yes, but kinda (intellectually) stimulating, no? 06/07/89 03:40 OWENJ Just plain Oliver Because... Because why? Because of the way... The way of what... The way of the phorce... What phorce? The phorce of the jedi masters! 06/07/89 08:40 MEDIC -=>MEDiC PROBABLE<=- To ZXCVBNM (or whatever that muddled account code is): More power can come from crystals than mere monetary value... more power can come from any aesthetically pleasing object as well... we all hold our unique values, priorities, etc... sometimes you can't put a price on the priceless (I'm not suggesting that the crystals necessarily apply, just that you're being a capitalist pig)... 06/07/89 23:39 IRONMAN ironman zzzzzzzzzzz.........zzzzzzzzzzz..........zzzzzzzzzzz.............. zzzzzzzzzzz................................... ( " ALL the other books claiming to be the Word of God " ? ) zzzzzzz..........zzzzzzzzz............... ( If you had asked Mohammed if he was God, he'd have torn his clothes, then cut your head off ) zzzzzzzzz.......... ( Confucius : God ? Nope ) zzzzzzzzzz..................zzzzzzzzzzzz............ IRON-" WOW ! He philosophizes EVEN in his SLEEP !!!! "-MAN zzzzzzzzz........... 06/08/89 01:55 GERBIL childhood trauma actually we always thought that was where you philosophized :) 06/08/89 09:24 MEDIC -=>MEDiC PROBABLE<=- Generally WE are asleep also while you philosophize, Ironman... Such ethnocentric beliefs... "Christianity is 100% correct! Everybody else is F****D! BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!" 06/08/89 09:59 ASYSCAPE Fire Escape The 10 commandments say not to kill??? Where?!? It says (in case you didn't know), You shall not MURDER. The hebrew language has over 30 (count them - THIRTY) different verbs for various types of "killing". The particular verb used in the commandment is "rasach". This word was ONLY used to refer to deliberate, firstdegree intentional murder of another HUMAN being. It had nothing whatsoever to do with self defense, Continued.. Had nothing to do with self defense, accidental death, the killing of animals for food or any other kind of killing that was not first degree!....................................................... AS for what sets Christianity apart from all other religious systems, I think this story will give you the idea... "A native of interior China wanted to become a Christian but couldn't understand how christianity was in any way superior to Confucianism and Buddhism. He related that his eventual understanding arrived in the form of a dream. This is what he said: "I dreamed last night and now I understand. I dreamed that I had fallen into a deep pit where I lay totally helpless. Confucius came to me and said, "Let me give you some advice my friend. If you ever get out of your trouble, don't get in it again." Then Buddha came to me and said, "If you can climb up to where I can reach you, I will help you." Eventually they both went their way though. Then Jesus came to me and He climbed down into the pit with me, picked me up and carried me out.". Only God could do what mere human teachers could not: Redeem. Jesus claimed to be God incarnate. Either He was as he claimed, or he was a Liar or a Lunatic. The latter are not good attributes for a moral teacher or healer. No other religious leaders have claimed to be God himself. I think Jesus proved it adequately. 06/08/89 10:12 ASYSCAPE Fire Escape Who says Christian symbols have any powere either? I certainly don't. A symbol is just that: A symbol. It represents a belief, it is not the belief itself though. The use of pictures and symbols to reach spiritual intimacy with God is unbiblical. It is to consult an image made by the hand of men, this is idolatry. Symbols are fine for reminding one of that which it symbolizes, but they should never be used in worship as relics or instruments, this elevates them to idols. John Owen held the same sentiment, that icons were unable to produce any true spirituality. He said, "For they made crucifixes and images with painting to represent Him in His sufferings and glory. Their carnal affections being thus excited by their senses, they suppose themselves to be affected with Him and to be like Him...You have a Christ of your own imaging and are thus satisfied with this imagination. You must then be satisfied with an imaginary salvation as well." 06/08/89 18:00 SYSOP blah i have never heard jesus make such a claim....i don't believe anything. don't just take FE's word for it....because i know she isn't the most wise and all knowing... (yet wiser then your average Punk) you will note that neither of the spiritual leaders you chose to pick on claimed to be a god....nor was their intent to be worshiped...(more then likely.....i refer to thorem put forth in the movie "life of brian") 06/08/89 22:59 OWENJ Just plain Oliver "Shouldn't we be fighting against our common enemies?" "The People's Front of Judea?!?!?!?" "No, the Romans." "Oh." I won't say this has any relevance to the prior discussion, but I won't say it doesn't... 06/09/89 01:06 GERBIL childhood trauma power symbols discredited? From one who sees the most power of all in a few thousand pages of WORDS?!? MERE WORDS?!? heh heh heh heh heh. One not to throw stones, I would think, but then again, I know nothing, I merely seek, and I seem to be damned for THAT... 06/09/89 01:08 GERBIL childhood trauma hmmm, gee I could be wrong but the incarnate kristna cetrainly claimed to be god... 06/09/89 01:30 JIMI Jimi I liked that line there FE about," The Imaginary Salvation".. Of couse, what do you expect fom "The Eater of Souls"??? Ah, yes, one of the many titles of Jehova... A god of a extinct valcano now called Mt. Arraratt (sp?).... Just the facts man...Just the Facts... 06/09/89 01:35 JIMI Jimi FE.. I do believe that Christ said,"I'am the only begotten Son of God". I have seen no reference to him saying,"I'athe Man, The Dude Upstairs".. I believe you have been sniffing to much printed paper again... He also didn't say,"I own the apartment upstairs either". What you are saying is truely conjectue. He doesn't say," I'am God.. Just that he was the son as your or the daugher.. But, it's open to interpretation just as any eligion seems to slant wods to their own benefit... 06/09/89 08:18 MEDIC -=>MEDiC PROBABLE<=- "I think Jesus proved that adequately..." Well then, Fire Escape, could you please elaborate? What sorts of NIFTY things did he do, and additionally, what proof do we have of this (excluding, of course, religious texts written by the obviously biased and devout)? 06/09/89 08:47 IRONMAN ironman Jimi, FE can ( and possibly may ) give you some of the MANY listings in the Bible where Jesus identified Himself for who He really was. And Medic, there are writings by Pontius Pilate which reference Jesus® Also, there are records of proclamations made in the years after the death of Jesus which basically said " Hey, uh, this Jesus guy: he didn't really rise from the grave like his crazy followers are claiming. The reason why the body of Jesus was missing from his tomb was because, uh, .....his Disciples came and stole it ! Yeah, that's it ! ". ( Pardon my rather biased paraphrasing ). I can't recall if these were proclamations made by the Roman authorities, or by the Jewish leaders in the area. Sorry for not being able to recall that aspect. But there are INDEPENDENT records of Jesus OUTSIDE of the Bible. I'll try to remember to get the exact sources for you, if you'd lik: Sources INDEPENDENT of the Bible, mind you. If you'd like. 06/09/89 08:57 IRONMAN ironman Huh.. I must have missed something somewhere. 06/10/89 02:54 OWENJ The Grand Guignol You usually do, IM... 06/10/89 02:55 OWENJ The Grand Guignol There are independent record of lots of things... that means relatively little... 06/10/89 09:17 CORDLESS God of Norelco The National Enquirer is an independent information source too. 06/10/89 22:12 TWEED Barfing Cat ()]8-) Like I said...Noone listens to a crystal.... FE, how does using a symbol as a representation of God transmute into idoltry? It's not the symbols people are worshipping, but the God. 06/10/89 22:16 TWEED Barfing Cat ()]8-) I somehow doubt there is one universal standard of ethics/morals... What may be appropriate for one situation may not be appropriate for another. Thus, I believe you are held accountable for the actions you feel you are held accountable for... 06/10/89 23:06 GERBIL childhood trauma I actually feel we are all held accountable for our means only, and never our ends. the nature of ignorance, and all that. yet kant does make some interesting points. one of which is the ethical statement "humans should never be treated as an end only.." 06/11/89 00:30 OWENJ The Grand Guignol I have to agree with BC, even after what I said about situational ethics... because I don't believe that this is situational ethics? Can an insane person be held accountable for his killings? Not in the eyes of the law, and certainly not in my eyes... If there is a final judgement, I don't feel I'll be held responsible for the actions I engage in which don't fit in someone else's moral codes. I just can't see that... 06/11/89 00:34 OWENJ The Grand Guignol My point... wish I could've said that while I was drunk... thanx, Cordless... 06/12/89 08:14 MEDIC -=>MEDiC PROBABLE<=- I'm not doubting the existance of a man named Jesus Christ... I'm questioning his "super powers" and "divinity"... Did the Romans/Jews/Skate Punks make any references to THAT?