05/31/89 19:55 SYSOP bitter & twisted you use to many words to say what i just said FE. A external focus.....they are pretty....but only serve to give the mind something to consintrate on that is exteranal to the body.... thus uneccessary but pretty anyway....not to mention it makes money... :) 05/31/89 21:30 WITSL Fred Witsl I would guess most people will believe that a pretty rock will have power because they cannot think that they (the people) can be able to do things extra-ordinary things. People believe, to the very base of their serpentine mind, that they have to touch something to move it. 06/01/89 08:19 MEDIC -=>MEDiC PROBABLE<=- What makes masturbation "physical abuse of the body"? I can understand the argument about lustful thoughts and all those wonderful things that you CHRISTIANS are so uptight and fearful of, but masturbation is not physically harmful to one's body (or "temple of God" [snicker] as you put it). It's one thing to create illusions for yourself, but why create illusions that make you feel guilty? This is why I don't understand Christianity... 06/01/89 08:22 MEDIC -=>MEDiC PROBABLE<=- FE, the scientific community also cannot find any unusual powers or energies within a crucifix, "holy water", rosaries, or any of your other little trinkets. And who are YOU to judge what's "appropriate"? 06/01/89 09:35 CORDLESS batting 4th tonight Fe, your diatribes are very boring. Your religious views have been sufficiently outlined and the continuous repetition of your personal beliefs serve only to highlight your own close-mindedness. By the way, Christians used to believe the earth was flat and the center of the universe. I'll take science ovemindless worship any day! 06/01/89 15:08 SIRLOIN irsa oinla solomillo redoing the message that I was so rudely cut off on... then if you drive, or ride in a car that isn't electric, then you are g people. The ten commandments don't say ANYTHING about what you should not kill, it just says that you should not kill. Are we protecting species when we destroy forests to grow wheat and grains? I think not, and if you contribute to this system, you are not perfect in the mind of God. IF you are driving a car, then you are contributing the to death of animal habitat, which is not at all protecting animals, it's killing them. If that's perfect in the mind of God, I'd like to see what isn't. of course, it's not our position to see what's perfect in the mind of God, but the above is pretty close. 06/01/89 16:35 JIMI Jimi What do you really expect from a book that that nobody will allow additions to? I mean have you seen any recent additions to it? They won't let you read the Berashith if you are a Fundimentalist beacause it won't make sense.. What I mean it isn't on the recommended list and that it just don't conform to the ideas of the system which they have constructed for the masses to believe. It would relieve you have some of the Dogma that Christianity uses to keep the Masses in line.. Thou shall not is nice but, the big question why?! Why is not alllowed and such.. BEcause I god who rules you because you believe me tells not to.. Your just a shit-slave to me..... Do as I say!!! I have no reason but, mind control and total breaking of "Free Will".... 06/01/89 19:19 SYSOP bitter & twisted ill take mindless worship......Worship the HHHHHHHHYy000000Geeee Ion!!! all you ladies.....you can confess your sins....and ill bless you...(or at least as long as my holy water sprinkler can hold out)....all you guys....your going have to work you sins off... :) Sir Ion 06/01/89 23:34 JESTURE jesture From the reports that I have heard in the science community, there seems to be no unusual properties to sugar pills commonly known as placeboes. They have no power except the power you believe them to have. They are just instruments in activating the power of positive thinking. Is it UN- appropriate for anyone to use this fakery or any other faith increasing device to bring about their own desire or will, to get well. Is this against Jesus Christ's will? I don't think so® --- sounds like another Gospel according to FE --- 06/01/89 23:52 JIMI Jimi FE.. There no more inapropriate than you looking at a cross and focusing your mental energies on it.. The Quartz Crystal is at least a Natural Symbol which has been used as just that a symbol. Just beacuse I elax my mind by looking into a Crystal or a candle doesn't mean that I worship them.. If you read much Scientific Journals you will find that they have more memory capabilities than you do. You canfind a Quartz Crystal that is 3 1/2 inches long has more memory than you. Sorta a shocking idea huh... If you tell me that your Christian Cross is a "Natural Symbol".. I think you had better look at the crosses that were there because, they vastly different.. I'm still sorry, Monotheism was a product of Polytheism.. It was a easier way for the masses to be invlved and less questions asked.. 06/02/89 08:31 MEDIC -=>MEDiC PROBABLE<=- Monotheism cuts out the middle man. It consolidates all of the universe's tasks for one god. Sure, he/she/it has to put in long hours and hard work, but somebody's gotta do it. 06/02/89 08:29 MEDIC -=>MEDiC PROBABLE<=- (as everybody waits in anticipation for the next Fire Escape post, when she will [as always] speak on behalf of the entire Christian world) 06/02/89 12:23 WITSL Fred Witsl The Bible is complete. It is the Word of God. All of it. There is no more. It is perfect. Just look in it, it will tell you so. (from our friends, the born agains) 06/02/89 13:23 MEDIC -=>MEDiC PROBABLE<=- "It is perfect...it will tell you so.˘ By the way, I'm perfect too. 06/02/89 14:20 WITSL Fred Witsl So am I, I think therefore I'm perfect? I wrote in my diary that I'm perfect: written proof! 06/02/89 20:20 TALON S'Talon Jimi- Crystals are nice, but I prefer candles or fire. I seem to be able to focus a lot better on those than Crystals. FE- The Scientific Community has also shown no proof of Christian devices or writings having any special power. In other words, I echo Medic's statements on the subject of Christian symbols. 06/03/89 01:22 IRONMAN ironman zzzzzzz, zzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzzz....... < Wake me up when the serious discussion begins, please > zzzzzzz, zzzzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzzzz...... 06/03/89 01:28 IRONMAN ironman Cordless, you are correct, some Christians DID use to believe the earth was flat® As did some NON-Christians. Jimi, if Jesus had been stoned to death, then a rock might have some particular significance for a Christian. He was hung on a Cross, however, so a Christian viewing a cross is reminded of the sacrifice Jesus made. Actually, a Christian viewing a CRUCIFIX is reminded of the sacrifice that Jesus made for us® A Christian viewing a CROSS is reminded of the victory Jesus woî over death. Jimi, if you go to the beach , you'll find that the beach has the CAPABILITY of more memory capability than you. So I guess you should start subscribing to "Sandbox Annual" to keep up on the latest scientific news. Pretty shocking idea, huh. 06/03/89 17:36 TWEED Barfing Cat ()]8-) Ahh. But is God really perfect? God is unchanging. The universe is change. Change is a constant. 10 becomes 1. -- Death, transformation.. -- Stability is stagnent, thus not in complete harmony with the universe. If the universe is the measure of perfection, then why strive to be imperfect? Or more to the point, why strive to be unchanging, and stagnent -- Thus like God -- and achieve imperfection? 06/03/89 17:45 TWEED Barfing Cat ()]8-) To FE: Your entire words say that you should have no free will... What is the point of this -- dehumanizing, non-assertive, passive baby, whip out the anul lube and bend over and let someone else do the driving point of view? Whose to say a crystal has no intelligence? Or power of it's own? I most highly disagree... But then noone will listen to a crystal. It might have something to say to YOU. Or it might infallably blast the shit out of you for saying such... 06/03/89 21:43 SAMHAIN NIVHWVS Huh? 06/04/89 01:28 CRYSTAL SUNSHINE the Bible is perfect? Then why are there all the contradictions...why is there all the dissent...why is the old testament all of fire and brimstone and the new all of gods love??? that sounds like a radical turn around to me...also why is there so much differences in interpertation which change passage meanings...if it is perfect shouldn't it stay the same...just wondering...SUNSHINE 06/04/89 10:14 SYSOP bitter & twisted the bible is a interpratation of "the word"....and there for is just as failible to interpaters as any word of a prophet is interpated by his followers....means different things to different people not always what it was intended to mean...Sir Ion 06/04/89 10:21 SYSOP bitter & twisted heh tweed.....you know i have a fairly open mind....but i also have a mind that doesn't believe..... but acts on information given to it... so far i haven't seen any information, other then peoples word, that crystals have any mental properties....Sir Ion 06/04/89 15:01 CORDLESS batting 4th tonight Allright already, so FE talks to much sometimes and crystals are interesting. 06/04/89 15:06 CORDLESS batting 4th tonight Anyone out there familiar with the Koran and how it is interpreted? It would be interesting to compare the way religions approach these similar writings supposedly inspired by some kind of god. 06/04/89 19:43 RANDOM Random of Amber I think that we should just ask Morrissey to look in his book. Having a Bard of Enlightenment around contributes to lazy users, eh? (Note: while it is true that I am *also* a Bard of enlightenment, I am sufficiently lazy that I will not look up "crystals, powers thereof, mentation thereof, psionic amplification thereof". So nyah.) 06/04/89 19:46 RANDOM Random of Amber Well, how about the vedas/upanishads? How about the Tao Te Ching? how about the various classics of confucian thought? Go ahead and neglect all religious thought of the eastern world, but unless you read them and all the other books claiming to be "the word of god" and make a decision among them based on a more holistic viewpoint, expect ME just to filter out everything you say on the subject. 06/05/89 00:08 FROM: GERBIL childhood trauma TO: ALL SMRY: kantian philsophy Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about Kant's Categorical Imperitive notion. The idea is that one should act in a way that can be willed to be universal. But more importantly, Kant claims such a device is in place in all of us, and that we use the notion to judge good all the time, we merely fail to use it properly and thoughtfully. Is the universalization of the act the path to ethics? Is such a notion innate to man? Can any act be considered in a general enough setting to be thought of as universal? For example, in the case of telling a small lie to protect the feelings of a friend, what is the maxium to be tested? lying? protecting? lying to protect? the specific lie to the specific individual? 06/05/89 04:07 OWENJ Just plain Oliver Hmmm... sounds like an excuse for situational ethics to me... not that that is necessarily bad, but... you can set up an infinite number of situations (acts) to universalize, so to speak... that is, the theory is only as good as the generalizations it is founded on... am I making any sense? 06/05/89 04:13 OWENJ Just plain Oliver The bible is just an interpretation, by you, of what it says... interpret it as fantasy or fallacy, as parable or proof, it doesn't matter... it's just like any work of art... it is up to you... I'm not any kind of thumper, and I completely agree with Greek... you can't make an informed decision until you are informed... but if you want an easy out, the bible can provide it, just as it can provide some rather pretty poetry if that's what you want (Psalms, to name but one), or a good story (Tobit), or a blueprint for a B-grade sci-fi movie (Revelations)... it just depends on what you want... how you want to live is up to you, and if the bible is your answer, you may be naive or correct... I assume we'll all find out someday... 06/05/89 04:22 OWENJ Just plain Oliver Ackzually, I did look that up... I read the first paragraph, which saying something about cat food, and YOU interrupted me... so this is your own fault, Random... 06/05/89 08:47 MEDIC -=>MEDiC PROBABLE<=- Do these people have real jobs, are do they just sit around and come up with these meaningless philosophies all day? Sounds like a dire need for a hobby and/or sex to me...