03/25/89 22:19 FROM: STRYPER Warrior Of The Son TO: ALL SMRY: Don't take 1 Christian's view Don't take 1 Christians views and think ALL Christians are like that. I have met other Christians I CANNOT stand there views and beliefs differ from mine greatly, but then that doesn't mean all Christians are that way and they are all bad. That would be like saying you don't like that polition Duke who is a Republican then saying since he is a Republican then I won't like any Republicans cause that would be wrong. There are alaways going to be a few bad apples in every group, but that doesn't mean you dislike them all!!!! Thats the whole point!! WARRIOR OF THE SON 03/26/89 09:45 CORDLESS COMPLEX Religion is the opiate of the masses. 03/27/89 02:00 SCIMITAR SCIMITAR I'd be an atheist thumper, but there's nothing for an atheist to thump with. Perhaps I'll start with my drumsticks... or the Communist Manifesto... or something groovy like that! 03/27/89 02:01 SCIMITAR SCIMITAR Dukakis was a Republican? Huh? Besides, the fact remains... Jesus was a confused hippie. I can think of much better concepts to worship... 03/27/89 02:03 SCIMITAR SCIMITAR Ah, SOMEBODY agrees with Marx and I. Free thinkers reject religion entirely... 03/27/89 15:29 TWEED Barfing Cat ()]8-) I dunno...I'm going to start thumping with the Websters Dictionairy myself.... 03/27/89 15:35 TWEED Barfing Cat ()]8-) We took the fall... So, FE, you are saying that being human is thus a sin? 03/27/89 18:29 SYSOP Slur Ion that which you reject will be come a entity unto its self...and come back to defeat you....(chapter house dune)......Sir Ion 03/27/89 23:34 IRONMAN ironman Hmmmm....Jesus was a confused Hippie ? Well, that's certainly going to get an "A" for originality, but a much lower grade for accuracy. Unless you've got some sources that you're not letting us in on, Scimitar ? 03/27/89 23:37 IRONMAN ironman well, that's a start.... 03/27/89 23:41 IRONMAN ironman What Fire Escape is acknowledging, TWEED, is that ALL humans have sin. 03/28/89 00:21 3771 PRISM Just to jump on in here.......Did anyone ever run across these people who believe pre-marital sex is a sin? Are any of you them? If so....what about Adam and Eve? (if you believe in Adam and Eve) Were they married? If so, by who? 03/28/89 01:16 GERBIL CHILDHOOD TRAUMA actually, more and more i am coming to believe that the only unconfused people are the hippies. But then again, what do i know? 03/28/89 01:45 OWENJ THE WEEKEND WETURNER A> I agree... Jesus was a confused hippie... B> It's NOT an original idea... I read it in spray paint on a wall somewhere... C> I agree... most hippies are less confused than most other people... 03/28/89 01:47 OWENJ THE WEEKEND WETURNER But of course, they were married directly by God... and it was one HELL of a reception..® Um... maybe not... forget it... 03/28/89 01:49 OWENJ THE WEEKEND WETURNER Hmmm... maybe someone should write an Aetheist Bible... I'll get right on it... gimme a few lifetimes... I need to find someone to be inspired by, or dictated to by, or something... sigh... 03/28/89 02:27 GERBIL CHILDHOOD TRAUMA inspiration?!? MONEY 03/28/89 06:45 LORDZAK Shit-head All they had was cake and punch, no alcohol you know. Seriously, Ironman, you said that you question the bible and your church supports you. Hypo: You read the bible and decide in your mind that Jesus was not crucified but died of a heart attack. The crucifiction was created for effect. Now you really believe this. Do you think that next Sunday when you stood up in front of your church and told them this, that they would support your interpetation and your "free thinking"? Š03/28/89 10:06 SYSQWID Morrissey....... Just doing my job..... 03/28/89 10:57 FIREESC Fire Escape Good job Morrissey. Yes, Ironman, that was exactly the point I was making, ALL HUMANS ARE SINNERS. It is an inescapable condition because we are raised by sinners in a world under sin. Pretty simple to figure out. No it's not a sin to be human, it is a sin to be an IMPERFECT Human, not because of the human part but because of the "imperfect" part. If you can be 100% perfect according to God then more power to you, you will be acceptable as a HUMAN if you can live that life. But frankly between you and me, I could never measure up to that perfect standard, that's why I have chosen to receive a pardon instead of a "good works" system. I hear that NO ONE has ever worked off their debt of sin on their own, and with odds like that, I think you will understand if I choose the 100% gaurenteed easy way. (ahh but here's the catch..) It's really isn't all that easy either, you try dying to yourself sometime and you'll see what I mean. Anyway, I doubt that Ironman meant he could pick and choose what part of the Bible he wanted to believe. But I'll let him answer for himself. I know that my church would thump me real good if I didn't check what they taught me against what's in the Bible. If all the sudden they started teaching that Jesus was gay or was a woman, you'd better believe I would be asking to see the references, just like the Berean's did to Paul. I think this is what is meant by being thinking people. READ the Bible and decide for yourself BASED upon what you read. Any serious study of the New Testament will support that the early church and the apostles SINCERELY believed Jesus was Crucified and Resurrected. And seeing how millions of people don't just get up and put their faith in madmen, I would tend to believe then that they really DID see these things, therefore they did indeed HAPPEN. Fire Escape 03/28/89 18:40 FROM: HEADLESS Headless Chicken TO: ALL SMRY: A Thought Not being God has its limitations. 03/28/89 TO: ALL ANONYMOUS SMRY: The Greatest Sin The Greatest Sin is low self-esteem. Low self-esteem denies the Power within, that spark of The Divine that is in all of us. When we deny this spark, we deny the Divine, we blaspheme the Living God. Jesus, who is the Christ, reminded his followers: "Love thy neighbor as thyself." We can only do that when we truly see ourselves for what we are -- beautiful Creations of The Living God...for God does not make Junk!! -Brother Daviä (The Guide) 03/29/89 19:09 SYSOP Slur Ion and its advantages...... i.e. you don't have to get the sun going in the morning.....you don't have to watch all those people...some doing some realy disgusting things.....you don't have to wage a eteranl war with your brother (satan)....you don't have to be holyer then thou..... you don't have to bare the wait of killing you own son.....not to mention all the people that are kill in your name.... if people kept praying to me....I'd tell em to piss off! 03/30/89 15:36 FIREESC Fire Escape What God are you talking about Ion? Sounded like you were TRYING to describe the Christian God. If you were, you might note that the Bible says Satan is a creation, a created being, no where are we told Satan is a god or that he is in any way divinely related to God. If you are going to go off on God at least get it right. 03/30/89 10:44 FIREESCP Fire Escape The GREATEST Sin is worshipping YOURSELF instead of God. When we PUT ourselves before God we commit idolatry. God doesn't dwell with unrighteousness, for he is perfect and in us dwells no good thing, if we claim to be without imperfection, we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us (1st John 1:8). We are creations of God but we remain separated from him because of our imperfection until we repent and submit in faith to the Lordship of his Son, God incarnate, Jesus Christ who paied our debt in full and brings us into a relationship with a perfect God through grace. It is only then that God dwells within us, we do not become a part of god but rather be become Children of God, but remain fully human, we are not divine like our father only forgiven and loved. Yes we are to love all people as we love ourselves. Jesus wasn't telling us to love ourselves, he was making an observation that no man hates himself, low self esteem is not man's problem, this is the great lie that Satan told in the beginning. Man's pride is is greatest sin and this is exactly what the evil one does not want us to recognise. "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom.. -Proverbs 11:2" "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble..-Proverbs 3:34". See Ephesians 4:2, James 4:10 and 1st Peter 5:6 for commands regarding humility. I haven't seen any commands in the Bible exhorting us to take PRIDE in who we are and how special we are. Would be interested in seeing a few verses to support that belief. "Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, that He may lift you up in due time." -1st Peter 5:6 Fire Escape 04/02/89 04:51 JIMI Jimi Better get it right Ion.. It is Lucifer called Satan.. The Bringer of Light and Redemption through Knowledge. I see the Christian Path itself TOTALLY BANS all knowledge that doesn't agree with it.. If it doesn't fit in the crack.. Lucifer is tempting you.. Sounds like a VERY safe reality to me.. 04/02/89 10:20 SYSOP Slur Ion "get it right"......"get it right"......by who's reconing....didn't the christian god write the bible...then it is just as likely that your going to take ITs (god) word for "creating" all the "fallen" entities......satan, lucifer, etc. are mentioned as FALSE gods....but gods none the less.......as for the truth of the bible....FE....give me a break...no ones gets everthing perfect......i highly dought the word of god is any different....... a god that commits mass murder....and then later tells It's people that its wrong to kill....is not my kind of god... i have made it a practice not to bow to any man, god or beast.....i try to put no ENTITY above or below me in importance! what you read in print....is just that....print....when you take the word of a book and hold it high and mighty....and no experince can possibly change your view........then is when reality becomes a dusty book......Sir Ion 04/02/89 12:42 SYSOP Slur Ion self esteem has 2 sides....people with low self esteem...usualy also are the ones that tend to have to much self esteem.....i.e. pride, arogance, lose of self, shame are all part of the same package. Like a pendulam thats swings to wide...its bound to smash a few things...cause damage to all concerned....lack of emotional self control.. has its disadvantages for the emoter and any other person involved....no emontion is also not a viable path.....(example: spok) ­ Sir Ion (the man with diminition pointy ears) 04/04/89 15:07 FIREESC Fire Escape God has the total right to kill, we don't. After all what he created, he alone has the right to destroy. Those people he killed brought about their own destruction, God waited for them to repent and they would not, he was litterally required out of love to destroy them as a doctor amputates a gangrenous limb in order to save the rest of the body from the disease. Sin is a disease and when we will not allow God to treat us for it we bring about our own destruction, what is so wrong or unfair about that? You can refuse to worship God in this life sure, but in the end every knee will bow wether they want to or not, I personally an going to be on the willing side. The choice is always up to us until the day of judgement comes. 04/04/89 18:04 SYSOP Slur Ion ah i see...so if i create a child...its my right to kill it.... doesn't tollerance rate up there as a good act.....so...god is also not tollerant.... i.e. Stop sinning or ill blast you! ?? gee....i thought free will was in here some where....i mean...if theres only one way to live...then f*** it.....i't rather be blasted... some how....i think some narrow minded people baught a few pages of advertizement in the bible.....and have confused most of reading world.......Sir Ion 04/04/89 19:36 ELDER The Elder Sir Ion, I am going to be the Devil's Advocate on this one . I think the concept is something different. In the case of a father and his child, the father is merely an organism that is along the chain of life, all part of God's plan. He, being part of the chain, has no right to destroy any other portions of that chain. But God created the chain, and is exclusive of the chain, therefore, it is "his" chain, unlike the father, whose child is not trully "his". Hmmm...... I can see how that would work, it is severe, but valid. The Creator is seperate from the Creation and can operate outside of its rules, and still be "right", after all, it is his system.