03/22/89 00:53 RODENT Ricky Rodent Hmmm... I noticed no quotes around "and my sheep know me and recognise my voice"... now I'm CONVINCED Fire Escape is going megalomaniac! 03/22/89 00:55 RODENT Ricky Rodent But I've kept a lot of Christians from having fun, merely be persecuting and taunting them relentlessly about their silly beliefs. And there are many kinds of "real happiness" to be found, INCLUDING what YOU may consider to be "lesser" pleasures. Anyway, I don't specialize in Christians. I pick on Pagans, Islams, Jews, or anybody else that wants to dedicate their lives to some flakey lies. 03/22/89 01:17 GOOMYPOP Goomypop the So-So I didn't know that mice could spew venom! 03/22/89 01:31 PROBABLE Medic Probable A rat after my own heart... 03/22/89 15:41 ELDER The Elder Ricky, YOU persecute ANYONE! You couldn't bash your way out of a barph bag. Questioning beliefs and doctrine is fine, I enjoy it, but bashing and persecution is stupid. I think this is something from the Bible: "by the measure you judge, so shall you be judged." Is that right, FE? All the foolishness..® ­ Elder 03/22/89 16:21 PROBABLE Medic Probable Agreed. Attack the belief and the doctrine, but NOT the people who practice them... 03/22/89 16:38 IRONMAN ironman Dadburn it, Medic, that's about the 4th or 5th post you've made this past week that made SENSE ! Just a second, I HAVE to mark this down on the calendar... Okay, And Fire Escape, Nice post! This Mike Warnke sounds like he's got a pretty good handle on the whole thing. 03/22/89 23:20 ASSASSIN THE REAL SYSOP Let these "pagan" sLet's these "pagan" squids have both barrels MEDIC.....Go for it MEDIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO MEDIC!!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!! 03/22/89 16:33 IRONMAN ironman Well, if ya gotta go out in the storm, you're right to make sure ya got your raincoat on. But, to borrow a quote from WWII, ask yourself: "IS THIS TRIP NECESSARY ?" 03/22/89 16:18 PROBABLE Medic Probable Well, the rest of you can hide in your closets are whatever, but I don't intend to let paranoia inhibit my social life. Now, don't get me wrong - I do intend to use some protection (prophylactics), and while NOTHING can keep you completely safe, it's the sensible thing to do (without letting the stress and worry overwhelm you). 03/23/89 16:27 TALON S'Talon FE- We don't have to put words in your mouth. You said it, we didn't. I was reading a piece in the library about how clerics of Christian churches and why they hated Wicca and other white witches so much. IThe explanation given was becuase the clerics wanted sole control of the spiritual realm, and didn't the laymen or other professional organizations to know God except through their rotting heirarchy of clerics and ministers. In other words, the white witches was giving the clerics a run for their money, and teaching the people how to think for themselves. Maybe that's why the thumpers hate not only modern witches, but AD/D, conventions, skilled hackers, scientists, and almost any other group that thinks for themselves and encourages others to do the same. If everyone thought for themselves, it would put the thumper clerics (and clerics of other closed-minded churches, Christian or otherwise) out of business, as everyone would see what a sham they really were. -S'Talon 03/23/89 16:41 TALON S'Talon It appears the thumpers will use anything to try and keep us from enjoying ourselves. I remember when AIDS was first known, and the thumpers was saying it was "A judgement of God on the homosexuals". What a piece of judgemental bullcrap. ABout a year ago, when a thumper cleric was asked the question "What about the innocent hemophiliacs", the cleric answered "That is the consequence of sin". I'm sorry but a man has to pay no man's karma, but his own. Use reasonable protection and get on with your lives, and remember that the thumper clerics want all of us to become Vulcans in a box, with no fun whatsoever. -S'Talon 03/23/89 17:03 ELDER The Elder Excellent. Too often both sides of the fence let the discussion degenerate into name calling (sinner, goody-goody, heathen, blind idiot, pagan, conservative), and this is neither conductive to humanity nor productive to the individuals involved. All of us are in constant transition, growing and maturing. Each of us is searching for ourselves and the proverbial truth, but none of us can trully find it to the "ultimate level", so why not learn from another's experiences, whether in a positive or negative way? And an interesting thing about the quote: "Only the strong survive, the weak must die." All of us have our weaknesses. Because we are rational beasts, able to communicate, endowed with memories and emotions, we have to cooperate and grow together--like one united body. Each an individual, but all dedicated to helping one another. 03/23/89 17:44 IRONMAN ironman Hmmm.....perhaps you might want to chose another library. With all due respect, what the heck Christian church are yoõ possibly referencing S'Talon¿ "Clerics want sole control of the spiritual realm." "don't want laymen to know God except through their rotteî hierarchy of ministers and clerics " ? The church I attend and take an ACTIVE part in has none of the traits you described. As a matter of record, THINKING yourself and having a PERSONAL relationship with God is stressed and promoted. Check your Bible out if I may be so bold as to make thaô recommendation. As to the supposed thumper "hate" list: 1). WITCHES: No...I don't hate them. I feel sorrow for them as I do for any lost soul. 2). AD/D: No...I'm BORED by it. 3). CONVENTIONS: Depends...A convention of Christians discussing how the Bible is applicable in today's world ? Yes. 4). SCIENTISTS: Hardly. I've met, associated, and learned with and from some very learned men in the past 15 years. 5). THOSE WHO THINK FOR THEMSELVES: No...For TRUE free thinkers who displayed enormous courage in the face of real danger, please check your history books for thå movers who brought about the Protestant Reformation. I would, in my humble opinion, have to respectfully suggest that the churches which you may or may not have looked into are not those which follow the teachings of Christ. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that just because a church doesn't have a doctrine which changes directions with the breeze that it is close-minded or against free thinking. Some of the churches which to the uninformed are against freå thinking are extremely agressive in promoting individual thinking® The Quakers, for instance. 03/23/89 18:01 PROBABLE Medic Probable "Pagan" is name-calling? Seems to me most of those Wiccans I know regularly CALL themselves pagans as a badge of honour.Kinda stupid name, tho... "pagan" is just a vague term that Christians (yuck) applied to any non-Christians... 03/23/89 18:07 IRONMAN ironman S'Talon , perhaps you would care to provide us thumpers with some factual statistics on the ability of condoms to prevent the contracting of the disease AIDS. If I'm not mistaken, I believe I've heard that a condom is only 85% guaranteed successful against the AIDS virus. Has to do with the size of the AIDS virus. As to the statement that thumpers will go to any length to prevent you from enjoying yourself. How so ? 03/23/89 18:14 IRONMAN ironman And the heathen devil-dogs ( Oh, stop it, it's a JOKE !) refer to us in what they think is a derogatory manner as "Thumper". Hey, I call MYSELF a thumper, gladly ! 03/24/89 15:45 HEADLESS Headless Chicken See, free thinking is OK, as long as you don't question the Bible, God or the general dogma that is handed down by the "higherups," be it God or the priest® Makes great soldiers. 03/24/89 15:49 HEADLESS Headless Chicken Labels, labels everywhere! 03/24/89 18:01 IRONMAN ironman By all means question the Bible. Free thinkers will do that. PLEASE be a free thinker. And, if another can satisfactorily answer your question for you, by all means, be big enough to say " Hey, I can accept that. I not worried about what SOMEONE ELSE may think of me if I say I accept a certain answer to a certain question. " Free thinkers will do that . PLEASE be a free thinker. A little poem, if I may: YOUR OWN VERSION You are writing a Gospel, A chapter each day, By deeds that you do, By words that you say. Men read what you write Whether faithless or true; Say, what is the Gospel According to YOU ? 03/25/89 12:55 OWENJ THE WEEKEND WETURNER Well, gee, I guess I'm just gonna shut myself up in a little box to stay safe from AIDS... might as well get a coffin, it's the only way of avoiding this plague from God..® -OWJ...Dr. NormalUser 03/25/89 13:02 OWENJ THE WEEKEND WETURNER Hmmm... my roommate at school is a devout Baptist... he's told me (on several occasions) that it's a sin to question the Bible (ackzually, he says 'the Word of God', but you get the idea), even if you eventually decide you agree with whatever you were questioning. I told him I didn't... couldn't believe that (I feel the same way about that as I do about eating meat on Fridays...) (and I refuse to believe any benevolent being would punish you for thoughtcrime), so he had his brother, a graduate from Tennessee Temple U (I think he was a divinty student, or something real close to that idea), write me a letter telling me this. What he didn't realize was that this just destroyed my faith in the Deity a little more... The above post really did make sense... read it again... -OWJ...Dr. NormalUser 03/25/89 13:33 FIREESC Fire Escape Ok Folks, Look up . See Them? Here they are! Look real close now I don't want you to miss them (Geeeeeeeeeez!) -----> """""quotes""""""""" ""I am the good Shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me - Just as the Father knows me and I know Him - and I lay down my life for the sheep."" - Jesus said this in John 10:14-15. I SAID that if True believers KNOW Jesus, you can bet that we (the sheep) know each other when we see or encounter each other. We know who is the guinuine article and who is just playing some "plastic Jesus game". Paul commended the Bereans for double checking everything he taught about God with previous Old Testament writtings and judging for themselves if they agreed with his interpretation, see ACTS 17:11. Being a Skeptic of God or the Bible is not a Sin. Calling God an out and out liar through rejecting Him and the Bible altogether is however, See 1st JOHN 5:9-12. God looks at the inward heart of man because all sin begins in the heart. Why would a perfect loving God not judge the heart and thoughts of men? Jesus said (not me, JESUS) that all sin (that's the ultimate action) proceed from the heart and imagination of Man. (see MATTHEW 15:19). Until we realize that our very nature (thoughts and feelings) is in rebellion against God we can not recognise our complete need for a savior apart from our efforts. Once we realize that even our attitudes offend God then we can honestly say, "No good dwells in me" and then turn to God and say "What I need is not within me, only you can save me now." This is the key to true repentance. Rightness must be imputed to us since we can not achieve it within ourselves because our very heart is wrong. Fire Escape 03/25/89 13:58 FIREESC Fire Escape I wonder if they are the Pressure Sensitive type??? Boy! A world of double meaning there! Whew, I'm on the rolì today! Foot on the Rock and Name on the Role! Fire Escape 03/25/89 21:23 GERBIL CHILDHOOD TRAUMA bull! YOU said you knew them by the word and the act, yet you judge not on the word love and hte act of love. THAT is a head game, a power game. YOU lose when you play it. We just laugh. How can YOU measure OUR love? Childh00d "THUMPER" Trauma