Name: Fire Escape #65 Date: Mon Jun 19 11:55:10 1989 Questions.. RE: Hell Doomer: That's a good question. What does the Bible say about Hell? Who does it say will go there? How long is "Hell"? In the Greek: it's called Gehenna or Hades. This was thought to be a place where the spirits of men and angels were held for eternal punishment. The other Greek word for Hell is Tartarus. These words appear throughout the New Testament in reference to a "spiritual state of separation from God which is what the Jews orriginally considered DEATH to be". No where is spiritual death taught to be annihilation. The words always refer to separation. Separation from what? The body? No. That's just PHYSICAL death. Spiritual death is separation from God. This state is an eternal state which can only be altered by faith. Once one leaves the body and enters the realm of the spiritual, faith becomes void, thus you remain in whichever spiritual state you were in at physical death. Here are some verses about Hell for inquiring minds:2nd Thessalonians 1:9; Jude 13; Revelations 14:11; Daniel 12:2; Mark 9:43, 47b-48; Matthew 25:46.. The above verses all teach the following: Eternal suffering without end. Permanent separation from God and fair judgement by God. To say that people won't go to Hell is UN-Biblical. Hell is forever and people DO go there. Knowing God, He will most likely Cry during judgement. Who wants to condemn a loved one for their sins. But if you are just, you HAVE to do it. You did have a way out, and God did everything He could. The state of being both Just and loving is a double edged sword. It's not always "nice". Name: Snappy #98 Date: Mon Jun 19 12:01:41 1989 God sends no one to hell. Name: The Radical #163 Date: Mon Jun 19 17:56:00 1989 I tend to agre with Snappy, especially since I'm currently a nonbeliever. Name: Gryphon #21 Date: Mon Jun 19 21:29:02 1989 Ditto..and it IS so hard to look up those passages when there isn't a bible in the house...oh well. But my question as to why he created hell in the first place still went unanswered.. Name: Doomer #20 Date: Tue Jun 20 12:44:04 1989 Gryph: To have a place to hold all the BAD people HE created, dude, so he doesn't have to face his failures...? Just a thought. Ok, here's another thought that just occurred to me: Everyone goes to Heaven and NO ONE is punished, however, He DOES reward those that didn't worship satan, or kill for gain (Heh..I'll stop there, I had to say that.) and were totally nice guys. Now THAT sounds right to me, not that it's true, but it's a nice thought, no? Sounds like GOD to me. Name: Utwo #109 Date: Tue Jun 20 16:53:37 1989 Doom: Your brain is gonna overload with all these thoughts just popping in to say hello. Name: Doomer #20 Date: Tue Jun 20 22:10:05 1989 Naw..It was a one time thing, Ut-wo. Thoughts don't visit me regularly. Name: Fire Escape #65 Date: Wed Jun 21 14:03:12 1989 Hell is separation from God. According to the Bible, God can not have any imperfection in his presence. So by necessity, a place had to be made to confine evil or imperfection so that it would not contaminate the perfect. So in a spiritual sense, Hell is anyplace God is not. So if you think Earth is Hell now, just wait until God really leaves. Believe what you want. I don't know why you ask me to show you the verses that say this or that about God or Hell and then don't look at them yourselves. If I post them for you, certai users (who know who they are) have spitting hissy fits. So if you don't believe the verses exist, look them. It doesn't matter to me if you believe what I say, what matters to me is that you believe God. How can you say you have made a free choice to believe if you don't really understand what the Bible is saying. Once you understand it then you can say, "No, I don't choose to believe it". How can you disbelieve something you don't really understand? It appears "thumpers" don't hold all the exclusive patents on Narrow-mindedness. If you guys aren't willing to even examine the Bible, don't even say a word to me again about possessing a narrow mind. At least I have examined and understand other alternatives. I am not afraid of them. How about you? Practice what you preach. Fire Escape From: Thunder Date: Wed Jun 21 19:44:19 1989 If I desire to kill the little old lady next door. Have a fool proof plan for pulling it off. And I know that I will truly enjoy the kill, why shouldn't I? Don't tell me 'cause I might get caught. My plan is fool proof. Why shouldn't I go ahead a off this old lady? Name: Jk #18 Date: Wed Jun 21 20:11:29 1989 Nothing, if you subscribe to Neitzche. Nothing, if you're a sociopath. Personally speaking, I wouldn't commit such a crime, even if capture was impossible, for two reasons. First, even though I don't subscribe to biblical teachings against murder, I more or less take a "live and let live" attitude...more or less... Second, I would have no motive...I don't get any particular thrill out of murder (well, maybe I do...I haven't actually tried it to find out...), so there would be no reason for me to blow this old lady away® Just a few thoughts that happened to be halfway coherent... Name: Doomer #20 Date: Wed Jun 21 22:34:29 1989 What happened to that "God is EVERYWHERE" bit? Heh...I hated that stuff. About the little old lady. First of all, there's your conscience. 'Course if you want to give yourself some sort of disease, there's absolutely no reason at all 'cause you'd be a sicko. Then you'd have to muster the courage to actually pull the trigger...t'wouldn't be hard if she was a real bitch, I suppose. :) Actually, aside from morality and stuff, there IS no reason. Hey, that's one less individual for the Government to pay with your money, eh? Name: Snappy #98 Date: Thu Jun 22 04:23:30 1989 If God cannot be present where there is imperfection then he, by your definition, cannot be on earth. If you are saying that Christ can't make everyone perfect, then you are saying that christ failed. By your own definition, you are a false prophet preaching untruths. Name: Doomer #20 Date: Thu Jun 22 11:28:29 1989 And if we are all imperfect than how can God live 'in all our hearts'? How could he tolerate our prayers? Why not just anhilate us? Sounds reasonable to me! No, *I* know why! God is predjudiced against DEAD people! That MUST be it. I see. Name: Thunder #152 Date: Thu Jun 22 12:47:56 1989 Conscience? Doomer, whats that? Where did you come up with a conscience? Can you pick it up at 7-11? Were you born with it? Where did it come from?45 Name: Doomer #20 Date: Thu Jun 22 17:31:45 1989 Morality is a social disease, so to speak. Basically, your concience is what everyone around you has decided is wrong and have bred and burned into you. That doesn't mean it is necessarily BAD but, if you were brought up in a society where killing was 'alright' then you would have absolutely no reason not to blow her away, (un)fortunately that's not the way things work. Name: Utwo #109 Date: Thu Jun 22 18:39:10 1989 CONSCIENCE IS (damn cap locks) like a device that is installed into most people by society. It is basically a thing that that tells you that certain things are ok and other things arn't. Same thing Doo said just different words. Name: Jk #18 Date: Thu Jun 22 20:03:41 1989 Of course, SOME of conscience, I feel, is simply a particular person's nature. Though it's a cliche in the movies...the bad guy who has had enough of Evil Doings and goes and joins the Good Guys... I'm sure there ARE people like that; brought up in a very morally bankrupt environment who still turn out halfway "nice". Name: Gryphon #21 Date: Thu Jun 22 20:21:33 1989 conscience is a result of social rearing. take a cannibalistic tribe in africa and killing people is like second nature. take a nicely reared boy from harvard and most likely he wouldn't like killing people...becaues while in the former case it's been considered "normal", the latter is shown by society that it's "evil" and "bad." Hence, a conscience is formed about killing... And who's to say that evil is an imperfection? why isn't good an imperfection? why is good good and evil evil? Because some guy says so? Name: Doomer #20 Date: Fri Jun 23 14:58:45 1989 No..Because society says so...you know, Moral Majority? :) No, let's not go into that. Name: Utwo #109 Date: Fri Jun 23 18:37:53 1989 Actually Gryph..canabals don't kill people (except I guess in the case of war). Eating a human is like religious thing that they practice and they only eat humans when they died of natural (not exactly natural but not killed by the people having dinner) causes. It's similar to people being burned when they're dead. I'm not sure about this but it's a good assumption I think that when the tribe eats a person they feel they are recieving part of that persons soul (I could be totally wrong on that part.) Name: Gryphon #21 Date: Fri Jun 23 20:27:12 1989 Yes but..that's not the point, the point is that it doesn't go "against their conscience" because it's an accepted thing in their society.. Name: Slitter #130 Date: Fri Jun 23 22:20:02 1989 Nope. That one doesn't ride with me. For example (and I'll even stick to food), hunting is completely acceptable in our society. Lots of people -- those who have hunted as well as those who have not -- do not have it in the conscience to actively go out and shoot a deer. I've got to assume that people and their quirks are pretty much the same and that there are some cannibals who just can't get into it. The Aztecs used to eat people. Slaves ate any old part (whatever they were given) but others would eat some of the heart (for courage) thighs (for strength), and presumably other parts as well. They didn't make full meals of it but only took small pieces. The person who captured the dinner (generally killed for sacrifice) did not eat any of at persons flesh as the prisoner and captor were likened to son and father (respectively). Just a bit of arcane trivia to brighten you day. Name: Gryphon #21 Date: Sat Jun 24 08:22:02 1989 right, slitter. but i didn't say "all of society". society in general. true or false, today's society is very geared towards hunting. hell, just go to a magazine rack and browse thru some of the magazines. there are two groups...hunters and anti-hunters (like myself.) why? there are two sets of social norms for any situation anywhere. balance and counterbalance. it's the same for abortion, euthanasia, buying porn magazines, playing video games, etc....hunters are most frequently found in rural areas...out where there's not much city, where hunting is a way of life. ...in the city, where society doesn't provide any space for it, few people do it...etc. Name: Brightside #153 Date: Sat Jun 24 17:41:05 1989 You know, maybe if some of you would try to seperate what you LEARNED about religion and what God is really like, you could bring yourself to examine some truths objectively. I keep seeing "God is all loving" what about God is all-just????? An all-just God would not be able to let rebellion go on forever now would he? Unfortunately, most of us have been warped with tradition and man based religion. When was the last time you ever really checked out what God said for yourself? Yeah, I know, ask a priest. Well, guess what? Most of them only repeat what they've been taught too. Get off the stick and go check it out for yourself. You'd be surprised at whats in the Bible...... Name: Gryphon #21 Date: Sat Jun 24 21:05:25 1989 get real... "all-forgiving" and "all-just" and "all-loving" are mutually exclusive. If he loved everybody he'd let everyone go to heaven, if he was all-forgiving he'd love everybody, but if he was all-just, he'd punish people,but if he punishes people he's not all-forgiving. Name: Thunder #152 Date: Sat Jun 24 22:53:49 1989 Well we've established that society has a conscience. Where did they get it? Don't tell me they each got it from their parents. Where did mankind come up with these standards that you all are talking about?