Name: Jk #18 Date: Sun Apr 23 23:27:13 1989 For the benefit of those who fail to see the relationship between Christianity, Catholicism, and the idiocy of both organizations, here goes: Nothing you have in your Bible, nothing your priest/minister/deacon/bishop/acolyte/whatever says, nothing YOU say matters one TINY little bit because it's ALL arbitrary. The faith of the "old Catholics" was totally rocked because a new pope decided he'd change the church's image; suddenly, the "truth" became something COMPLETELY different. What IS "truth" then, if it can be arbitrarily changed? Now, here comes the complicated part, so pay attention kiddies... This applies to your Bible as well, IM. A dozen different ways to interpret a passage, from the ultra-conservative fundamentalist to the ultra-liberal contextualist. Which one is the "truth"? Yours? Because you SAY so? Do you also "say" that all those who believe otherwise can go burn their asses in Hell? You don't know the "truth" any more than I do. All you can do is blindly throw your loyalty to one that sounds good. Name: Utwo #109 Date: Mon Apr 24 16:54:54 1989 Hey, at least Catholics don't go shuving there religion around. Sure you walk into a Catholic mass, they're going to prech about the Catholic faith but I know very few if any Catholics (excluding Gauntlet at times) that go around saying the bullshit that SOME of the other forms of Christianity do. IM: Ok when do you think the Genesis story was written? Actually the basic form of some of the old Bible stories are taken from the Bablionian accounts such as a man that survived a great flood. The reason they appear in the OT is because hte Jews spent a lot of time in Bablyon (for some reason I can't be sure of the spelling of that today). Name: Ironman #120 Date: Mon Apr 24 17:30:36 1989 Sure there's a dozen different ways to interpret passages in the Bible. That's one of the things that makes it so GREAT ! There are, not contradictory , ways. In case no one has noticed, I've been posting in a rather aggravating style lately. I've been doing it on purpose, believe it or not. I was trying to let some of you folks get a little sample of the aggravation us "thumpers" sometimes come up against in our posting. Don't know if it worked or not, but that was my purpose. ( I have to admit it was a little fun , though ) In one of my earlier aggravating posts from a couple of days ago ( can't remember which subbie ) I typed the following letters at the bottom. ˙MTMMŽ That stands for " Method to my madness ". Which means, I may have been aggravating, but I was aggravating on purpose. As opposed to my normal charming, delightful, wonderful self ! Name: Slitter #130 Date: Mon Apr 24 22:33:34 1989 If you want to see real Catholic-bashing...go to some of the bookstores around town and ask if they have any "comic books" under the desk. There's a whole series of them which claim that the Catholic church is an extraordinarily powerful organization which manipulates governments of the world and has caused all sorts of stuff, including WWII. It is truly amazing how far paranoia can go. On the lighter side of Catholic bashing, see "ANOTHER ROADSIDE ATTRACTION" a novel by Tom Robbins. Don't get me wrong, I'm not agreeing or anything, I just thought some of you might be interested. Name: Doomer #20 Date: Mon Apr 24 23:38:21 1989 Kinda figured that was what you were attempting to do, Ironman, and yes it did piss me off. But see, the difference between what YOU just did to us and what WE do to you is that we do it in an intelligent manner. Name: Utwo #109 Date: Tue Apr 25 15:57:53 1989 Bravo Doom, Bravo! Ironman, you made us angry but you did it by just saying short cooments instead of putting some kind of fact behind your statements. In away you made us mad because of the complete idiotcy of your post. Name: Jk #18 Date: Tue Apr 25 16:56:42 1989 Hell, his lame attitude didn't piss me off NEARLY as much as when Christian "values" start getting spewed across the screen. I just took it as a sign of impotence... And gee IM, isn't the world just GREAT? I mean, just PEACHY-KEEN? The Bible is great, you, apparantly, are "great" because you played a cute wittle game with us, and life in general is just GREAT because the Bible can be interpreted different ways! Hey, lose with some grace, at least... Name: Ironman #120 Date: Tue Apr 25 20:22:37 1989 Well, never let it be said I didn't try to show you all what some of your posts come across as. But, as always, I'm always ready and willing to try to answer your questions on the Bible. Life, in general, CAN be great, JK, not just because the Bible can be APPLIED in different ways , depending on the situation, but it sure doesn't hurt !!!!! I was lost, by the way, but now am found.......because of grace. By the way, what WE were ALL doing was the SAME thing, and no, it wasn't particularly intelligent, I think. So.....I expect to see you all in Church this Sunday; front row pews, too ! Name: Jk #18 Date: Tue Apr 25 20:58:38 1989 Oh, and if I sit up in front and sing the loudest, will your God reserve me a spot in his "Heaven"? Play the game, follow the rules, you get your reward. Ever think of it like that? Christians aren't "morally superior" to the "sinners"...they're out for pleasure too. The "heathens" among us say "screw God, I'm living my own life". Christians say rejecting God will send you to Hell...that a life of pleasure means an afterlife of pain. Christians play by the inane rules, carved in stone, even though we of COURSE have "free will", depriving themselves of various things...things that are a part of being "alive", of enjoying life and living it the way YOU choose, not the way some faceless, unseen God dictated. Why do they debase themselves, put blame for all the world's evils upon themselves? Because they figure if they cringe before this "God" in life, they get the deluxe afterlife plan...they play the subservient for the "good stuff" they just hope with all their heart will come. Everybody's looking for the best deal. I wonder how many Chrisitians would stick with it if God decreed everybody goes to Hell, no exceptions... Name: Gryphon #21 Date: Tue Apr 25 21:25:43 1989 I doubt it...on another board, you may remember it, Jk (on Word), a person posted the fall of Adam and Eve and all that and his interpretation. I interpreted it a totally different way, making it out with God as the bad guy. Both could be drawn logically from the passages... so, since I translated it logically, does that mean I'm right? Or are we both right? Which is right? I don't know. You don't know either. Name: Slitter #130 Date: Tue Apr 25 22:48:49 1989 All I know is that everything YOU know is wrong. Name: Snappy #98 Date: Tue Apr 25 23:17:03 1989 would you please stop the stereotyping when you are...complaining about people stereotyping! I am so sick and tired about people being stereotyped by other people! It gets even worse when I see such phrases as "Christians say..." Well it may be true that some do in fact say certain things, but don't classify us all together. As a Christian I share one (1) thing in common with other Christians and that is my belief that Jesus Christ is my Savior. That is all, nothing more, Nothing less. Don't bitch at me if you don't agree with that belief, and I won't bitch at you if your opinion differs from mine. Just don't state everything you believe as an obvious fact, and I won't return in kind... In short stop the f***ing stereotyping. Name: Jk #18 Date: Wed Apr 26 16:44:50 1989 Assuming that little gem was directed at me... Why is it "stereotyping" if that's all I've heard? I have yet to hear something different, something original, something resembling origninal thought rather than being plucked from the Allmighty Bible. And I don't remember "bitching" at you, but I could certainly start, if you want... Name: Doomer #20 Date: Wed Apr 26 17:58:41 1989 Its much easier to write Christians than "Ironman, Warrior of the Son, Fire Escape, etc etc. say..." give us a break will ya? Name: Fire Escape #65 Date: Thu Apr 27 13:25:59 1989 Stereotypes: HA! Neat commentary huh? If you ever want your stereotype of the classic Christain totally destroyed, I challenge you to meet me. I guarentee you that I will not fit in your cookie cutter of christianity. I can't stand it when people pull out their Christian cookie cutters and cut out what they think a christian is. Ever notice that when you cut out a cookie there is a lot of dough left over? If God put all that dough in that Christian to begin with, to cut it out is like saying that God doesn't know when enough is enough. He called me, not my imitation of Jerry Fawell, or Billy Grahmm. As Robin Williams might say: "I am not a Stereotypical Christian, I am a HUMAN BEING!" I have one question for the universalist "christians": If Jesus's death and resurrection saves everyone without being dependent on their RECEIVEING it by personal trust/faith, How come John 1:12 says "For AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, He gave them the RIGHT TO BE Children of God."? Or Why does it say in Ephesians 2:8 "It is by grace you have been saved THROUGH FAITH.."? Or Why does it say in Romans 1:16 "..the gospel is the power of god for salvation of everyone WHO BELIEVES.."? And the same thing in hundreds of other verses? If Salvation belonged to everyone regardless of their faith, why did the disciples and early Christians DIE trying to persuade people TO BELIEVE? It is because it's BY FAITH that we are told to "be a witness" (Acts 1:8), as Paul said in Romans 10:14, "How can they call on the one whom they have not believed in and how can they believe in one whom they have never heard of?" Do YOU read these posts? Do you Read the Bible? If the above verses are ficticious then so is Jesus. You can't have one without the other! Name: Headless Chicken #6 Date: Thu Apr 27 15:45:07 1989 Ain't it nifty how self-propogating systems work? Name: Snappy #98 Date: Thu Apr 27 16:48:38 1989 If you truly believe in the Christian ideals, you would realize that all paths lead to the same place, and that a particular someone is always ready to pull you out of any pit, or trap you happen to fall in. Name: Slitter #130 Date: Thu Apr 27 18:15:25 1989 Let me put it to you this way...Please let me fall into the pit before you try to drag me out of it. Why do you assume that everyone else will fail just because you had problems? I guess "fail" was a poor choice of words. Sorry. Still, the point is the same. Name: Ironman #120 Date: Fri Apr 28 16:22:36 1989 To be on the safe side, I guess you could say. From my perspective, I'd have to say that I haven't seen anyone NOT fail ! Name: Doomer #20 Date: Fri Apr 28 19:22:19 1989 EVERYONE sins. ANd if you want to put that as the prerequisite for 'failing' then why don't you go bother you own? You know, removing the plank from your own eye and such? The way I see it, you d00ds look and see everyone who doesn't belong to your religion and say "Whoa, they fell in a pot hole dudes, LETS GO HELP!! Yea!!" The thing is, yyour religion is NOT that narrow but safe road, people. God laid the road I suppose you SHOULD say, you guys didn't and who are you to say that only Christians will be saved? As I have stressed before God never said, 'only Christians aare going to be with me forever'. NEVER. I'd go on, but I think you get the gist. Name: Gryphon #21 Date: Sat Apr 29 08:07:48 1989 the qualifications for " falling in a pot hole" seem to be not belonging to your religion. Siiigh..here I am, travelling down the long road of life, going peacefully and learning about life and death and spif microcosms and that sort of thing, when suddenly someone appears in front of me at an intersection. The person is so blinded by faith that they block my car, attempting to persuade me I've fallen into a pothole whenever I haven't, and they keep trying to yank me out of my car--my life--and bring me over to their views. So, I promptly run 'em over.