Name: Snappy #98 Date: Mon Apr 24 18:10:08 1989 Biblical Contradictions: They don't clear up at all. Using the bible as a roadmap is the wrong thing to do. It can offer guidance, but it is not a dictionary. It is open to interpretation, and as I have stated on numerous occassions it is classified as fiction. As far as Christianity... Christ's victorious Easter morning conquered death and hopelessness. Death had no sting, it was not an end. That is how I look at it through my interpretation. My interpretation also says that this was for all people, not just those who believe. Not Justification by faith, Not Justification by Faith....Justification for Justifications Sake. It is your choice whether to believe my or anyone elses interpretations of how things are. Let your own faith, your own goals and your own values guide you, that is what they are there for. There are many paths up the mountain, all patyhs lead to the top, the only people who don't make it to the peak are those who spend their lives running around the òÄBÿbottom of the mountain trying to get people to follow another path. Name: Doomer #20 Date: Mon Apr 24 23:29:15 1989 That's what I love about Christianity...They can take both sides of a coin and say its the same thing. They take the gospel and say, hey see how damned close they are to saying the same thing? It MUST be true!! And then they turn around and say, see how they contradict each other here and there? That PROVES that they didn't consult each other!! So it MUST be true!! Xianity thrives on ducking questions and issues and contradicting itself. Name: Snappy #98 Date: Tue Apr 25 11:59:30 1989 TIME OUT! Look, I am a Christian, but I want people to make decisions that are right for them. Don't call me a Xian. If you'd notice I am arguing on the same side you are. For the love of God (anyone you happen to believe in) wake up to what i am saying. Don't just push me aside as some over-zealous babbling fool. Read what i am saying, and you'll notice I am of the same general opinions as you. I am a Christian. I stated my beliefs. You can take them, alter them, leave, you can bake them into bread if that is what is best for you. Just so, according to your values, beliefs, experience, etc., you do is what you feel is right for you. Case Closed. Enough Said. Obviously no one reads these posts anyways, or we wouldn't be barraged by posts indicating as such. Name: Stex #22 Date: Tue Apr 25 20:40:14 1989 Snappy: I agree, everyone SHOULD do what they feel will work for them. I mean it's fun to argue religon and philosophy with a gag(heh...sk8ters anyone? Private joke there) of mindless idiots. Okay thats a bit unfair, there are some hardcore Xtians out there that aren't pushy, or MY way is right, and if you don't follow you're going to Hell so nyah! That's one thing I can't stand about most Xtians, they ARE pushy. They don't think they just state. They are fanatics. It must be really nice to have such blind faith in something. Kinda a scapegoat for life, in way. We do wrong, we make a way to make amends for ourselves. We set things in order when there, as Ironman said one place(but not in this context), is really no method to the maddness around us. They say we have free will, so we use it and they still chastise us. But god made all good so why not use the goodness? Really what it boils done to they have the free will to follow God, and not the choice. There is no choice. No happy medium. It's Heaven or Hell with Name: Stex #22 Date: Tue Apr 25 20:49:36 1989 MOST of them. Thats really what I generally hate they will dicate your life to you and they think their way is right for everyone. It isn't. I suppose there is a choice, like I said Heaven or Hell, but what I meant was they really don't want to give you a choice, they just want to preach and convert you and then go on with life. I just generally can't except that. Name: Gryphon #21 Date: Tue Apr 25 21:16:51 1989 Don't worry, Stex *I* understood your post... Name: Utwo #109 Date: Wed Apr 26 15:25:53 1989 Same here..You made tons of sense and I read most of it. Name: Doomer #20 Date: Wed Apr 26 17:36:47 1989 Same here...And I read ALL of it...NYAH! Name: Headless Chicken #6 Date: Wed Apr 26 23:08:05 1989 Excuse me..This is all rather uninteresting. Lemme say first that Christians have their Bible, I have my Telephone Book. Lemme say second, so what? Name: Fire Escape #65 Date: Thu Apr 27 13:02:43 1989 I'm baaack (just when you thought it was safe to bbs)... Well, I know that we appear pushy, and maybe we are, but you have to understand what motivates us. Put yourself in this position: You have been traveling down a nice looking road and you fall headlong into a deep pit, and you lay there thinking that you are trapped forever, and it wasn't the greatest experience in the world. And someone comes along and pulls you out because you accept their help. You could easily have told them to take a hike and that you would drag yourself out (if you could - which you can't), but no, you accpet their assistance and are saved from this pit. And then the assistant shows you the correct road to take, it's not near as wide and pretty but at least there are no hidden traps along it. Now I ask you, WOULD it be LOVING to go off on up this safe and right path by myself knowing that no one is standing at the intersection to warn those following after him? NO! It would be down right SELFISH to go on my merry way obilvious to the danger that lies in wait for those around me who are unaware. So are we then to be berrated for having the guinine concern for others, and the desire to save them from what we feel in our hearts is a dead (literally) end road? From this point of view, is it so hard to comprehend why we are so vocal and sincere about the path we have chosen? We can't force you to take the safe path, but we sure can try and pursuade you. And it's out of love. Believe me, it would certainly be alot easier to forget about the rest of the world and be content, but I can't be content while people are heading for certain death. Even if you can't agree with me on that, at least attempt to understand it. Fire Escape Name: Jk #18 Date: Tue Apr 18 20:23:57 1989 IM: even more simply put: an All-Good thing cannot "phuck up", or in other words commit an evil act (I'm SURE you consider disobeying God evil...). All-Good means ALL, as in TOTALLY, good. No ALL GOOD creature willingly performs an evil act. All good does not allow for even entertaining the thought of doing something evil. Name: Doomer #20 Date: Tue Apr 18 21:24:30 1989 Which Jesus MUST have done when he took on the human body...that's life. Name: Headless Chicken #6 Date: Thu Apr 20 15:27:52 1989 Good, Evil and Free Will: If one follows God, one devoids one's self of free will. There can be no other solution. P1 Free will leads to Evil P2 Following God leads to Good P3 Anything that leads to Evil cannot lead to Good ----------------------------------------- C1 Following God disallows free will Name: Doomer #20 Date: Thu Apr 20 18:40:24 1989 Except that it doesn't work that way... Following God PERFECTLY would disallow free will...well, not really because you would still have the potential for evil, so you can't give up your free will...if you have it at all, that is. Name: Gryphon #21 Date: Thu Apr 20 22:13:07 1989 Right. YOu can't say in one breath that this God d00d is omnipotent and in the next breath say that he's all-good. That's impossible. *true* free will would be to be able to do whatever the hell you want. Such as me... I mean, if god is so all-loving and all-powerful, then how can he let "poor misguided souls" of us imperfect beings "burn in the lake of fire"? If's he so all-good and all-powerful and all-spif, he'd certainly save anyone from such a nasty fate. Name: Ironman #120 Date: Sat Apr 22 03:57:53 1989 You might ask him that question yourself, Gryphon. GRYPHON: the Bible makes no mention of an apple. Recheck your sources please. UTMO: Genesis was written earlier than the 6th century B.C. Recheck your sources, please. Also, the joining of a man and a woman in marriage IS first mentioned in the Old Testament, in Genesis 2:24. DOOMER: following God perfectly does NOT disallow free will. If YOU CHOOSE ( ah, there's that free will choice again ) to follow, then it does NOT disallow free will. It's that simple. GRYPHON: "...poor , MISGUIDED souls..." ? Who, my friend is MISGUIDING you ? Certainly not I, my friend. I, and others, make our attempts NOT to lead you to the Church of IRONMAN, or to the Church of the Worldly Way. No, we try to GUIDE you, to point you, to steer you, to assist you, to carry if need be to the knowledge of God as revealed in the Bible. It is up to you to open your heart to the Holy Spirit.. Y O U. Not me. Not him. Not her. Not them. Not us. Y O U . JK: Well, all I can say is a little thought written in the Bible: " let those who have eyes to see, see. let those who have ears to hear, hear . " Name: Gryphon #21 Date: Sat Apr 22 14:11:00 1989 Please, please. You say repeatedly that you don't try and force your religionon us, yet you freely say "We try to guide you, to assist you, to steer you in the right direction." Don't, because you have no phukn guarantee that your way IS right. Name: Ironman #120 Date: Sat Apr 22 19:47:20 1989 Sure I do. Name: Jk #18 Date: Sun Apr 23 01:23:51 1989 All in your mind...you're a FANATIC, in case you hadn't noticed. Think of this...think of yourself as insignificant. All through the ages, cultures have created gods...they had ideas on the afterlife, on the end of the world, everything. THEY believed just as strongly as you, YET you declare all those religions "false". They would likewise declare YOUR religion false. Neither side has proof. Also think of this...before Vatican II, the Catholic church had all kinds of shitty restrictions; you couldn't marry a non-Catholic, hell, the witnesses to the marriage even had to be Catholic. It was taught unbaptized babies were burning in Hell. It was taught that sex was a dirty, sinful thing, and it should only be performed for procreation, not as a symbol of love between two people. Along comes Vatican II, and all that changes...suddenly, because the papal bureaucrats SAY so, you don't have to marry a Catholic, you don't rack up sin every time you have sex, and all those babies AREN'T burning in hell... Things people BELIEVED in, heart and soul, were just CHANGED. Suddenly, reality just shifted to the left big time... Don't even try to tell me you're "right" buddy...that sort of Christian superiority complex never fails to piss me off more than I can describe. Name: Gryphon #21 Date: Sun Apr 23 16:28:08 1989 It's amazing. Ask a Christian if they have proof and they say "Yes I do" but when they present it, it's only "Well, this book *said* that, so it must be true..." You think you're right. So? I think I'm right. He thinks he's right. We all think we're right. There are more Buddhists who think they're right than there are Xians who think THEY are right. Does that make Buddhism "more" right and make Xianity "more wrong"? Hmmm. Interseting question. If Xianity is so cut and dry and has so much proof, then explain the umpteen thousand different branches of it, from Lutheran to Protestant.. Name: Ironman #120 Date: Sun Apr 23 21:29:08 1989 JK, I'm not Catholic® ( I think they used to call this bear baiting back in the good old days ) Name: Doomer #20 Date: Sun Apr 23 22:48:23 1989 So what's your point? You are still a mental midget no matter what fragmented religion you belong to, so why bother correcting us? So what you're saying is that you've found the OTHER truth and way to be saved. Not that >ICK< CATHOLIC version! Well, -I'm- really into this 'saving' shit now.