Name: Slitter #130 Date: Fri Mar 31 23:10:13 1989 Yeah, I think that's about it. A person's god is designed in a fashion which meets that person's needs. How can anyone truly know the nature of God? Personally, I tend to think that the conscious remnamts of a dead person join the remnants of those which preceeded them (I realize that is not stated clearly). Therefore, the knowledge and conscionses (sp) all all who have died pool to form "God". I have had that basic belief for several years and was quite startled to read Anthony's "Viscous Circle" which says basically the same thing...sci fi or not. Name: Warrior Of The Son #116 Date: Sat Apr 01 21:16:26 1989 To Tell you the truth I am not sure about that scripture. I am not too familar with The Old Testament. But I gurantee once I read that part I will find an opposing view to it. Which scripture is that in I want to read it. I have never heard of him slaughtering pagans. Name: Snappy #98 Date: Sat Apr 01 22:14:08 1989 You can find a lot of opposing views in the Bible. The Bible, because it was writtein the points of view of many, ha many contradictions. The thing to remember about this though, is thatthis is how the Bible is supposed to be intepreted-- By the reader using hi/her own point of view. That is why the book iso powerful, every person has thr own translation. In this way, the Gd who created us, can be createdby us in the infinite ways that he exists. God exists in everyway, so he can be interpreted as any single oe of them. Name: Doomer #20 Date: Sun Apr 02 00:00:57 1989 It should be in either Exodus or whatever book comes after that. Once the Jews eentered the 'Promised Land' they found all these Pagan dudes there, and drove them out, 'cause it was 'THEIRS'. Oh, I almost forgot, for a few lucky Pagan's the Jews successfully rammed their religion down their throats. In fact, now that all this is coming back to me, God got real pissed off at them too, because the Pagans that were allowed to hang around incorporated a lot of their traditions in with the Jews and the Jews started doin' this pagan shit... Name: Warrior Of The Son #116 Date: Sun Apr 02 10:13:12 1989 I real look for it in the Old Testament. I will check it out, but I doubt the slaughtered all these pagans just to get their land back, or for whatever reasons. But I will look it up. Name: Slitter #130 Date: Sun Apr 02 12:32:41 1989 Pagans: In Leviticus 26:7: "And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword." Name: Gryphon #21 Date: Sun Apr 02 12:38:15 1989 Oh yes, but *everything* God does is just *wonderphul*... Name: Doomer #20 Date: Sun Apr 02 15:14:14 1989 No, they didn't slaughter the pagans to get their land BACK (I could respect that) they did it to take the land FROM them. Ack, the d00ds shoulda stayed in the desert. Name: Utwo #109 Date: Sun Apr 02 15:57:36 1989 They should have all stayed in the Transjordan. It was very good land at least at the time. WoS: Look in Joshua and Judges. Don't forget Jericho. They destroyed the place. Name: Gauntlet #10 Date: Sun Apr 02 16:56:44 1989 even if the Jews took the land from those "pagan" d00ds, it was their land, because God said so... Name: Doomer #20 Date: Sun Apr 02 20:37:07 1989 Oh that's good. so if Bush said here, you Christians can have ALL of Madonna's land holdings it'd be alright? So, this was God, and a God who was suppposed to be just (Justice, get it?)...THAT was Justice at its finest, why the Hell don't we adopt THAT system for OUR government? I mean God made it up so it MUST be PERFECT!! AHEM. Name: Gryphon #21 Date: MonApr 03 10:53:31 1989 Oh yeah right, I can just see it. God appears to Bush and says "Okay, George, you deserve Europe." So we wage nuclear war and wipe out the population of Europe 5 times over, and occupy the placeŽ But hey, it's okay, because god gave the place to us. Name: Gauntlet #10 Date: Mon Apr 03 14:11:12 1989 You guys are finally catching on!! Good... I'm so proud of you all... Name: Scooter #3 Date: Mon Apr 03 15:50:44 1989 It's about time! Name: Ironman #120 Date: Mon Apr 03 17:32:47 1989 But, my friends, that ain't the way it's going to happen. Check out Revalations. Name: Snappy #98 Date: Tue Apr 04 11:09:45 1989 Revelations, Was written for the time in which it was written. Its entire purpose was to explain why Christ didn't return imediately. Also remeber that it made it into the Bible by one vote. It sort of makes me wonder about those books that didn't make it into the Bible because of one religious leader's veiw of it. The really silly thing about the Bible is that it is closed. Certainly god's works go on, why doesn't the Bible? The same people who voted what should go into it and what should be kept out closed it. Geez, if nothing else as new books of God's works get added, we could have an Auto-kill and start dropping the first books. Now that the New Testament is here, why do we need the old one anyway? Name: Fire Escape #65 Date: Tue Apr 04 13:41:41 1989 Ok these next few posts deal with the old testament... A chief objection to the view that the God of the Old Testament is a God of Love and Mercy is the divine command to exterminate all men, women and children belonging to the seven or eight Canaanite nations. How, ask most serious readers of the text, could God approve of blanket condemnations, of the genocide of an entire group of people? Attempts to tone down the command or to mitigate its stark reality will fail from the outstart. God's instructions are too clear and too numerous to overlook. In most of these cases (Exodus 23:32-33, 34:11-16, and Deuteronomy 7:1-5, 20:16-18) a distinctive Old testament concept known as "Herem" is present. This means "curse", "that which stood under the ban" or "that which was dedicated to destruction." The root idea of this term was "seperation"; however this situation was not the positive concept of sanctification in which someone or something was "set aside for service and the glory of God", rather this was the opposite side of the coin, to set aside or separate for destruction. God dedicated these things or persons to destruction BECAUSE they violently and steadfastly impeded or opposed his work over a long period of time. This "dedication to destruction" was not used frequently in the OT. It was reserved for the spoils of southern Canaan (Num 21:2-3), Jericho (Josh 6:21), Ai (Josh 8:26), Makedah (Josh 10:28) and Hazor (Josh 11:11). Long and unabated toleration of idolaters in a city or nation ultimately anathematized those ignoring natural revelation of God, as well as knowledge of God occasionally coming from other evidence (Deuteronomy 13:12-15). Their treatment was set forth in Deuteronomy 7:2-6. In a most amazing prediction, Abraham was told that his descendants would be exiled and mistreated for 400 years (430 to be exact) before God would lead them out of that country. The reason for so LONG a delay, Genesis 15:13-16 explains, is that "the SIN of the Amorites [also known as the Canaanites] has NOT YET reached it's full measure." Thus God WAITED for centuries while the Canaanites slowly filled up their OWN cups of destruction by their sinful behavior. God NEVER acted precipitously against them; his grace and mercy waited to see if they would repent and turn from their headlong race with destruction. Not that the conquering Israelites were without sin. Deuteronomy 9:5 makes it clear that to the Israelites: "It is NOT because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations." These nations were cut off to prevent the corruption of Israel and the rest of the world (Deuteronomy 20:16-18). When a nation starts burning children as a gift to gods (Leviticus 18:21) and practices sodomy, bestiality and all sorts of loathsom vices (Lev 18:25, 27-30) the day of God's grace and mercy has begun to run out. Just as a surgeon does not hesitate to amputate a gangrenous limb, even if he cannot help cutting off some healthy flesh with the bad, so God must do the same. This is NOT doing EVIL that good may result; it is removing the cancer that could infect the whole body (society) and eventually destroy all the good remaining. God could have used pestilence, hurricanes, famine, diseases or anything else he wanted. In this case he chose to use Israel to reveal his power, but the charge of cruelty against God is no more deserved in this case than it is in the general order of things in the world where all of these same calamities happen. In the providential acts of life, it is understood that individuals share in the life of their families and nations. As a result, we as individuals participate both in the families' and nations' rewards as well as it's punishments. Naturally, this will involve some, so called, innocent people; however even that argument involves us in a claim to omniscience which we do not possess. If the women and children were spared in those profane Canaanite nations, how long would it be before a fresh crop of adults would emerge just like their pagan predecessors? Why was God so dead set against these canaanites? When the Israelites were struggling through the desert towards Canaan, the Canaanites picked off the weak, sick and eldery at the end of the line of march and brutally murdered these stragglers. Warned Moses, "remember what the Canaanites did to you along the way when you came out of Egypt. When you were weary and worn out, they met you on the journey and cut off all who were lagging behind; they had no fear of God." (Deuteronomy 25:17-18). Some commentators note that the Canaanites were not merely plundering or disputing who owned what terrritories; they were attacking God's chosen people to discredit the living God. Some trace the Canaanite's adamant hosility all through the old testament, including the most savage butchery of all in Haman's proclaimation that all jews throughout the Persian empire could be massacred on a certain day (Ester 3:8-11). Many make a case that Haman was a Canaanite. His actions then would ultimately reveal this nation's deep hatred for God, manifested toward the people through whom God had chosen to bless the whole world. I know that was a lot, but I thought it was very relavent to the conversation, hope it adds to the discussion. Name: Doomer #20 Date: Thu Mar 30 19:41:50 1989 But, like, we've already argued THAT point sooo...:) Name: Slitter #130 Date: Thu Mar 30 20:42:03 1989 HISTORY BOOK? YOU MEAN LIKE, THE BIBLE, FOR INSTANCE? ARE ALL OF THESE SUBBARDS RELIGIOUS OR WHAT???? Name: Headless Chicken #6 Date: Fri Mar 31 00:21:51 1989 Religious subboards: Hey, dude, God is EVERYWHERE! Name: Utwo #109 Date: Fri Mar 31 14:29:39 1989 IM: That's what I was saying. HC: Good comment. I started cracking up. FE: May be science is concerned with making a break through or something. I mean not many scientists mix science with religion. They just wanted to find out the date. I don't feel like arguing today so everything I say today is going to be pretty lame. (There's the perfect set up now let's see who comes back with a funny or cutting remark. hehe) Name: The Chief #67 Date: Fri Mar 31 16:50:39 1989 We can all be serious...Like the people down the street from me who believe in the 'Frisibyology' religion. It's the religion that believes that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down. It's in the book..... Name: Slitter #130 Date: Fri Mar 31 17:50:31 1989 !!!!! I love it, Chief. Name: Mr. Ed #1 Date: Sat Apr 01 16:15:48 1989 I enjoyed that too, Chief. Slitter: Headless Chicken was right about God. He is everywhere. He especially seems to pop up here and there on almost every subbie here. I can't explain it. About the most current event I can think of is this super neato keen weather today... I got the old sliding glass door open and letting all of that wonderful fresh air in the apartment. Now, only to finally get off my but and get out there!